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Post by Green Ghost on Nov 13, 2004 16:17:53 GMT -5
[shadow=green,left,300]Ok..now I understand if you didn't like the Riddler design..he's a character many of you like...but NO ONE here likes Cluemaster...everyone complained he was even being used in the show....so how can you have a solid dislke of the design? How can you honestly even care. lol. I think he looks interesting and fun. and like I've been telling you...this ep is supposed to be fun. even the fans on ToonZone like it! forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=126522I stayed up an extra hour this morning coming off the overnight shift to bring ya these pics! You'd better straighten up ;D[/shadow] he, he.. he looks very great MATT Better go and get some sleep So then he is more a funny charakter like I guessed in my first post. Like I said before that this design is good in a funny way. But I was only concerned if he fits into the Batman universe. It is very interesting that the guys at Toonzone like it because a lot of them are not happy with the rest of the redesigns and the toon.
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Post by Faithfulbutler on Nov 13, 2004 16:37:24 GMT -5
Yet again i have no problems with the new character designs whatsoever.The new takes on the characters is all good to me and i'm more than happy.The Midgets are hillarious and dangerous at the same time. Change is good and i'm finding all the redesigns very satisfying!Thanks Matt.
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Post by HUSH on Nov 13, 2004 16:47:17 GMT -5
Oh, and as was said before, as long as this villain is a sort of comedic bad guy, I'm ok with the goofy appearance.
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Post by reideen1313 on Nov 13, 2004 17:21:30 GMT -5
Personally, I like him - he's really a clean slate for Matsuda and Co to play with, since most people don't have any kind of pre-concieved notion about him, like they do with the Joker, Riddler, Freeze, etc. Cracks me up though with the comparisons to Oogie Boogie and Jabba the Hutt.... almost one of those "celebrity love child" things that Conan does from time to time....
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Post by TJM on Nov 13, 2004 17:38:48 GMT -5
I'm not crazy about this design, but then again I'm not crazy about the character of Cluemaster at all. As long as the episode has an interesting story and a reasonable explanation for why he looks the way he does and why he hangs out with midgets then I'm willing to give this design a chance.
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Post by JokerFC on Nov 13, 2004 17:45:43 GMT -5
I'm not crazy about this design, but then again I'm not crazy about the character of Cluemaster at all. As long as the episode has an interesting story and a reasonable explanation for why he looks the way he does and why he hangs out with midgets then I'm willing to give this design a chance. yeah that is essential in my book
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Post by TheQuestion on Nov 13, 2004 19:54:54 GMT -5
uhhhhhhhh....no.
dont get me wrong, all the new designs are awsome. but this....this is suck. this is suck in its purest form.
and the midgets?....come on!
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Post by /\/\att on Nov 13, 2004 23:46:51 GMT -5
I mean, sure Cluemaster is a lame 3rd rate villain, but I care for the same reason that I care when the histories & looks of the other Batman villains are re-written and changed severely... I was wanting a Batman cartoon more than a Batman Elseworld's cartoon. I'd really like to see the characters that I’ve read about all these years and that I love (and in this case characters that I don't love) brought to life. This isn't doing that as much as it is "re-inventing" the characters. I understand that no matter how much we'd like it to be, this show is not being made for us, the older fans. I do wish though that even though the show had been made for younger people, that they would have taken the opportunity to present most of the characters in at least a semblance of the people that they were supposed to represent and present some of the original stories that have become fond and familiar to us. I personally believe that if the characters were not great to begin with, that they would not have withstood the test of time that have brought them this far to merit a series. Overall, the show is what it is. I don't think it's great, but maybe it will bring around interest in some younger viewers that will progress to them wanting to know what Batman is really all about. In a few years, these will be the Batman fans that will start reading the comics and learning about the characters and who they are. These young people will be the next generation of Batman fans and keep the hero alive...if the show can at least do that, then it's worth something. Anyway, sorry for the long-winded rant, but again Matt, I meant no disrespect to you, as I think you do a fantastic job updating us and bringing us info that we get form no other sources, but I've just never been a fan of "re-imagining" something that has proven the test of time. ~Tim [shadow=green,left,300]Thanks for the well thought our reply Tim. I'm glad there are people to have good debate with that doesn't get ugly Here are a few points off the top of my head. Firstly, yes the basic designs have proven the test of time...but the ratings went away...kids got tired of it. To grab their attention today, you need to freshen things up. Like it or leave it, if you want a Batman toon on the air, it had to happen in some form or another. Heck lots of people still to this day hate teh new Batman adv. re-vamps for much the same reason. You said you don't like it when the histories and likenesses of villians, even ones you could care less about otherwise, are changed. So by that logic would you be receptive to the character if they gave him a new name? Because thats really all it comes down to.[/shadow]
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Post by Peev34 on Nov 14, 2004 0:35:58 GMT -5
[shadow=blue,left,300]I seen it...I have had time to think about it.....AND I LOVE IT!!
I can understand why people may be put off by this initially, but come on....if there is one character that could seriously use a MAJOR overhaul its the comic version of this guy! Can anyone here honestly say that the original version being left behind is something to be terribly upset about?!
I always hated Cluemaster in the comics...always thought he was a waste of perfectly good page space. With his daring overhaul, Jeff Matsuda has done something no Bat-creator has even been able to do...MAKE ME INTERESTED IN CLUEMASTER!
I personally cannot wait to see how he turns out on screen![/shadow]
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The Dinoboy Wonder!
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Post by The Dinoboy Wonder! on Nov 14, 2004 0:55:30 GMT -5
lol at reideen! i watched ep 6 today and i was thinkin of cluemastah when i saw jabba teh hutt.
btw, did the max rebo band die aboard the vessel?
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Post by BullocK on Nov 14, 2004 1:30:34 GMT -5
[shadow=red,left,300]I love the design!
It's a breath of fresh air to an otherwise stale character.[/shadow]
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Post by Batlaw on Nov 14, 2004 2:58:58 GMT -5
I like it fine. It's at least more inventive / creative. And given his 3rd tier status, I have no problems with the creators taking any and all liberties Nec. This is one villain that NEEDS the update/upgrade work. This character "works" for the show and its direction for those purposes. Unlike the other more clasic villains. Personally, I dont care for the Riddler design and some of the others, but perhaps since this was the original Riddler design, maybe thats why I see the new Riddler as uninspired and rushed? So far nothing has really put me off to the point of disinterest or "discust", Well, maybe the Scarecrow design... LOL, that just sucks IMO. Personally, cant wait for Croc
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BatWulf
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Post by BatWulf on Nov 14, 2004 7:06:14 GMT -5
I don't hate the design, and I thank Matt for bringing it to us. I've never been a big Cluemaster fan (has anyone?), nor a fan of his daughter. But I'm looking forward to the episode anyway, just as I've looked forward to each new episode. One thing though...If this Cluemaster had just shared some of his meals with the Riddler, they'd both look a lot healthier.
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ROBOTRON
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Post by ROBOTRON on Nov 14, 2004 8:32:20 GMT -5
This is a HUGE contrast between what he looked like in the comic book and this..........thing.
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Post by jlavaia on Nov 14, 2004 9:21:11 GMT -5
the new series is alittle out there, but it isnt horrible. and at least justice league unlimited is in the regular universe, and teen titans is so on with what went on in the new teen titans and teen titans series'. basically they can do this to cluemaster because he hasn't been in any other animated series before. and honestly in "the batman", i dont care what they do to the characters, b/c it really is an elseworlds tale. as long as they keep making figures of villains with no figures (i.e: Firefly), i'm happy.
Question: does anyone know which Firefly it is in The Batman, Garfield Lynns, or the original firefly Ted Carson?
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Post by JokerFC on Nov 14, 2004 9:55:43 GMT -5
i think its ol garfield chief
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Post by jlavaia on Nov 14, 2004 14:12:22 GMT -5
thanks.
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Post by TheQuestion on Nov 14, 2004 15:47:10 GMT -5
ok. after rethinking this, Ive decided that its actually cool,
cooky but cool.
this ep will be interesting to watch.
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Josh
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Post by Josh on Nov 14, 2004 20:44:25 GMT -5
[glow=blue,2,300]Thanks Matt for the clip! After watching it, I have to say, I want a Cluemaster figure![/glow]
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Post by JokerFC on Nov 14, 2004 20:49:45 GMT -5
id like one too i have my the batman shelf set up on the same wall as TAS ad TNBA just directly underneath ,and the rogues gallery for this line is gfonna look different no doubt i have a evolution of the rogues gallery thing goin on........
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Post by BlackBat on Nov 14, 2004 22:48:59 GMT -5
[shadow=green,left,300]Thanks for the well thought our reply Tim. I'm glad there are people to have good debate with that doesn't get ugly Here are a few points off the top of my head. Firstly, yes the basic designs have proven the test of time...but the ratings went away...kids got tired of it. To grab their attention today, you need to freshen things up. Like it or leave it, if you want a Batman toon on the air, it had to happen in some form or another. Heck lots of people still to this day hate teh new Batman adv. re-vamps for much the same reason. You said you don't like it when the histories and likenesses of villians, even ones you could care less about otherwise, are changed. So by that logic would you be receptive to the character if they gave him a new name? Because thats really all it comes down to.[/shadow] Matt, I totally agree that to have a show on the air today that you need a shot in the arm for the Batman. I had just hoped that while updating the look of the characters (in style) they would keep some of the backstory and the concepts the same. I would have loved to have seen the Batman done in an anime style perhaps similar to Cowboy Bebop or even the Riddik: Dark Fury cartoon. I guess in other words what I'm saying is that I can really appreciate the need to update the animation to a fresh style, but I think that while updating the style of the show, more of the original backstory and history of the characters could have been used to introduce the younger viewers. As to your thought about giving redesigned characters new names...sure, I'd go with that. I don't think I'd have any problem accepting new villains added to the Batman universe. For example, if they'd taken the new Riddler design and called him "The Twister" (lame name I know, just an example) then he's a new character. It's like the Catwoman movie... that wasn't Catwoman, so why call her that? Just give her a new name since she has no real ties to old character. Anyway, those are my thoughts on it, but you're right...I love having conversations like this. Adult and thoughtful debates are fantastic and we don't get to see enough of them on the web ;D ~Tim
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Post by /\/\att on Nov 14, 2004 22:54:39 GMT -5
Matt, I totally agree that to have a show on the air today that you need a shot in the arm for the Batman. I had just hoped that while updating the look of the characters (in style) they would keep some of the backstory and the concepts the same. I would have loved to have seen the Batman done in an anime style perhaps similar to Cowboy Bebop or even the Riddik: Dark Fury cartoon. I guess in other words what I'm saying is that I can really appreciate the need to update the animation to a fresh style, but I think that while updating the style of the show, more of the original backstory and history of the characters could have been used to introduce the younger viewers. As to your thought about giving redesigned characters new names...sure, I'd go with that. I don't think I'd have any problem accepting new villains added to the Batman universe. For example, if they'd taken the new Riddler design and called him "The Twister" (lame name I know, just an example) then he's a new character. It's like the Catwoman movie... that wasn't Catwoman, so why call her that? Just give her a new name since she has no real ties to old character. Anyway, those are my thoughts on it, but you're right...I love having conversations like this. Adult and thoughtful debates are fantastic and we don't get to see enough of them on the web ;D ~Tim [shadow=green,left,300]I'll touch on the Catwoman comparison first...because I think you may take that back down the road....Catwoman was disliked not because of her look...but because it wasn't selina...it had really nothing to do with batman at all! That was the problem....now with Riddler...I assure you he IS the riddler still. He riddles his butt off! lol. His look may be drasticly different, but his personality is not...I think thats a misconception that will be hard to clear up until next year when the ep airs. I hope that makes sense. Now for the anime thing...I actually would love an ultra-violent batman anime..but we are in the minority my friend...hell people were complaining about matsuda's style thinking it was TOO anime! .....and these people like Teen Titans! go figure lol. But I'm with you there man. as for backstory...keep in mind that while things aren't developing like btas that doesn't mean it won't. They have to debut someone and throw them out there...many of the villians are slated to come back for more eps, hence more character developement and backstory. Its brand new...it needs time to evolve and grow into its own complete mythos. I'm confident it will get there [/shadow]
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Post by DARK KNIGHT on Nov 15, 2004 1:03:21 GMT -5
Thanks so much for the advance looks Matt Personally I've really been enjoying the Batman the animation is great (I"VE only missed 1 episode the ManBat :-/long story grr and I can't wait for the rerun of that to air so I can see it )all the rest are on tape I understand what Black Bat is saying though ,in a way I kinda mourn the loss of the BTAS Mr Freeze origin Nora just added so much heart and depth to the character that is missing from the new origin but that's not going to stop me from enjoying the new stuff It's just starting and I'm excited to see where they take it . no one says we have to choose one or the other Season 2 of BTAS is supposed to be released soon January I think !
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Post by PJ on Nov 15, 2004 6:04:03 GMT -5
Matt, Thanks for the information. I didn't care much for this design when it was originally going to be the Riddler. And I'm still haiving a hard time liking it as the Cluemaster. Hopfully it'll work in the cartoon, but I still think it's just way to large. PJ
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Post by JokerFC on Nov 15, 2004 6:59:31 GMT -5
[shadow=green,left,300]I'll touch on the Catwoman comparison first...because I think you may take that back down the road....Catwoman was disliked not because of her look...but because it wasn't selina...it had really nothing to do with batman at all! That was the problem....now with Riddler...I assure you he IS the riddler still. He riddles his butt off! lol. His look may be drasticly different, but his personality is not...I think thats a misconception that will be hard to clear up until next year when the ep airs. I hope that makes sense. Now for the anime thing...I actually would love an ultra-violent batman anime..but we are in the minority my friend...hell people were complaining about matsuda's style thinking it was TOO anime! .....and these people like Teen Titans! go figure lol. But I'm with you there man. as for backstory...keep in mind that while things aren't developing like btas that doesn't mean it won't. They have to debut someone and throw them out there...many of the villians are slated to come back for more eps, hence more character developement and backstory. Its brand new...it needs time to evolve and grow into its own complete mythos. I'm confident it will get there [/shadow] once again you provide me with comfort matt have you ever thought about working for the samaritans?? ;D
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Schemes
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Post by Schemes on Nov 15, 2004 14:07:17 GMT -5
meh, the design isn't HORRIBLE, I just dislike it, out of a five, i'd give it about 2.5, well.... 2.9 I love all of the otehr designs, I'm thinking we'll see Clue on some upcoming Pillsbury wrappers though....
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ROBOTRON
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Post by ROBOTRON on Nov 15, 2004 15:28:52 GMT -5
After watching the clip of The Batman fighting those midgets...the episode looks very interesting now! (WB video clip)
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Post by reideen1313 on Nov 15, 2004 16:05:47 GMT -5
After watching the clip of The Batman fighting those midgets...the episode looks very interesting now! (WB video clip)Robo - is that the same clip that Matt has on the LOG Batman page? I'm at work (behind a firewall) and can't watch it. If so, I won't worry about it when I get home - if not thought....
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Post by /\/\att on Nov 15, 2004 18:01:22 GMT -5
[shadow=green,left,300]Yes Jeff thats the very same clip that started this thread. [/shadow]
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Post by reideen1313 on Nov 15, 2004 18:15:55 GMT -5
[shadow=green,left,300]Yes Jeff thats the very same clip that started this thread. [/shadow] I thought it might be. Thanks Matt!
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