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Post by Batlaw on Apr 21, 2006 15:40:02 GMT -5
Also off topic, but in going back over the WorldsFinest grabs from the unedited version, anybody recognise Batgirl's blonde "street connection / informer" during the ROTJ flashback? lol kinda weird.
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Post by blinker on Apr 21, 2006 16:18:05 GMT -5
That was Black Canary......while not called Black Canary.....but finally was in JLU.
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Post by reideen1313 on Apr 21, 2006 17:24:40 GMT -5
a) Besides Dini, does anyone else like it all? b) if they do like it to any degree, why didn't they just say that? Why do either of those questions matter? Who really cares if Dini/Timm like the show at all? Is their opinion going to change your opinion of the show? I'm sure hearing their thoughts will influence some people, but really, how much is it going to matter? If you're currently watching the show, is their opinion going to stop you from watching? If you're not currently watching, is it going to make you start watching? Other than John Byrne (who seems to think we care about his opinions) no other artist/writer is really asked "What do you think about the current team/show/artist/etc" like these two are about this show. Creators, such as Stan Lee, might be on occasion, but they fricken created the character in question. Timm & Dini did not do that. Their contribution, while great, was no more and no less than any other team that's been on a cartoon, comic or tv show dealing with the character. Sorry to go off like this. Blinker - it's not directed at you and I apologize if it comes off that way. The questions you posed are the same questions I've seen since the series was announced and prelim art was popping up. I'm really frustrated by fans that are so closed minded about Batman and the franchise in general, that they cannot accept a different look for these characters and a different team being responsible for the franchise.
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Post by arkhaminmate on Apr 21, 2006 18:37:31 GMT -5
a) Besides Dini, does anyone else like it all? b) if they do like it to any degree, why didn't they just say that? Why do either of those questions matter? Who really cares if Dini/Timm like the show at all? Is their opinion going to change your opinion of the show? I'm sure hearing their thoughts will influence some people, but really, how much is it going to matter? If you're currently watching the show, is their opinion going to stop you from watching? If you're not currently watching, is it going to make you start watching? Other than John Byrne (who seems to think we care about his opinions) no other artist/writer is really asked "What do you think about the current team/show/artist/etc" like these two are about this show. Creators, such as Stan Lee, might be on occasion, but they fricken created the character in question. Timm & Dini did not do that. Their contribution, while great, was no more and no less than any other team that's been on a cartoon, comic or tv show dealing with the character. Sorry to go off like this. Blinker - it's not directed at you and I apologize if it comes off that way. The questions you posed are the same questions I've seen since the series was announced and prelim art was popping up. I'm really frustrated by fans that are so closed minded about Batman and the franchise in general, that they cannot accept a different look for these characters and a different team being responsible for the franchise. Exactly what I was thinking. I don't care what Harley looks like as long as she's in it, & her personality is true to the character. This has happened so far with all the other characters so I'm not worried with it too much
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Post by blinker on Apr 21, 2006 18:38:14 GMT -5
Its just what is always wondered on. Its like "did Timm and co. hate TB when its started but then it grew on them, or did they liked it and accepted it from the start? But if thats true, then why didn't they just say that it was a good show?"
But I understand what you meant.
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Post by ayenlou on Apr 21, 2006 19:51:45 GMT -5
I'm really excited for this. I mean all the versions of Batman aregreat. They were true to the character. They all had something great about them. Change is constant and its good to see what new things are brought into the world of the Batman. I love Matsuda's Batman and what The Batman crew has done with it. Animation is so fresh and awesome. I can't wait to see Robin and Harley and what other characters they'll bring to this show.
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gatubela
Legions of Gotham Police Officer
Posts: 136
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Post by gatubela on Apr 21, 2006 20:22:33 GMT -5
uh, im confused by the quote "from a dini, harley story", what does that mean?! I think its great that the batman is getting harley quinn, cant have joker without harley!!
reideen1313: while i dont hate the batman and dont prefer BTAS much better, i really dont like that most of the stories seem to be so poor, specially in the first season!! batman's villains have great backgrounds that the writers can work with! most of the villains in the batman have no backgrounds or are either thieves or mercinaries! only about 5 of 20 have good believeable stories!! i know the batman is aimed at kids but you can have a great story and still be entertaining!! and it doesnt help that joker and penguin are in so many episodes when theyre not needed!!
i like most of the redesigns and think some of the different takes on the characters is neat, but its just that most of the characters just appear without any reason, and thats just not batman!
i also dont want anybody to say that i think BTAS is better, because i think some of the episodes were kinda dull, while i like the music on the batman a lot because it keeps you awake!!
so when someone says they dont like the batman its not always because they wont accept a new show or soemthing like that, it might be that they dont like the show BTAS or not!!
well, im done, hope i dont start anything, i was just sayin!
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Post by reideen1313 on Apr 21, 2006 21:28:14 GMT -5
Its just what is always wondered on. Its like "did Timm and co. hate TB when its started but then it grew on them, or did they liked it and accepted it from the start? But if thats true, then why didn't they just say that it was a good show?" But I understand what you meant. Thanks for understanding. Like I said, it wasn't directed at you - just at those questions. I think they didn't say anything because, like Chris said, they're professionals. I think they had respect for the creative team and what they were trying to do. Think about it - if they would have come out and said that the new show is horrible, fans would have reacted even worse (if that's possible) than they did. If they would have said the new show is great, it could have artificially generated a buzz that may or may not have been warranted and the shoul could have failed as a result. It was much better to let the show and the creative team establish itself IMO.
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Post by reideen1313 on Apr 21, 2006 21:50:53 GMT -5
reideen1313: while i dont hate the batman and dont prefer BTAS much better, i really dont like that most of the stories seem to be so poor, specially in the first season!! batman's villains have great backgrounds that the writers can work with! most of the villains in the batman have no backgrounds or are either thieves or mercinaries! only about 5 of 20 have good believeable stories!! i know the batman is aimed at kids but you can have a great story and still be entertaining!! and it doesnt help that joker and penguin are in so many episodes when theyre not needed!!
i like most of the redesigns and think some of the different takes on the characters is neat, but its just that most of the characters just appear without any reason, and thats just not batman!
i also dont want anybody to say that i think BTAS is better, because i think some of the episodes were kinda dull, while i like the music on the batman a lot because it keeps you awake!!
so when someone says they dont like the batman its not always because they wont accept a new show or soemthing like that, it might be that they dont like the show BTAS or not!!
well, im done, hope i dont start anything, i was just sayin! Nope - you aren't starting anything. I think your opinions are just as valid as those of people who really enjoy every aspect of the show. You articulated your side of things very well and I appreciate the fact that you are able to debate the merits of the shows without bashing one or the other. (If we could still hero each other, I'd be giving you a few for the above post! ) I'll agree, some of the first season episodes were slow. Since then, I feel that they've really improved all aspects of the show. Well, not all aspects - I preferred Edge's theme song to the current Hawaii 5.0 theme that they're currently using. ;D But, I've enjoyed the stories, the characters, the animation, etc etc, much more as the episodes have continued. I believe that the creative team has a road map or a plan for where these characters are going. Take Freeze as an example (just because he's the most often sited problem with The Batman). I think that we were shown Nora's photo on the dash of the car he was driving in his origin episode. I think that we'll find out that Freeze is stealing diamonds as some sort of plan to heal either himself or Nora and reunite the two of them. That's just my suspicion - not anything that Matt or anyone else has revealed to me. Joker is evolving. We first saw him and, I'll admit, he was a little 'Blanka'-ish. (Street Fighter reference for those who aren't familiar with the character.) Over the course of the show, he's started wearing slightly more traditonal outfits and even was in my fav episode to date - the one where he dresses up as Batman - so there is growth to the character. Penguin is accurately portrayed. Yes, the jumping martial arts is new to the character, but have any of you ever seen a Samo Hung movie? Fat guys can do martial arts and they aren't exclusive to people of asian decent. I absolutely LOVE the Kabuki Twins and hope to see more on their background. Riddler is exactly as he should be. Yes, the look is a bit of a shock at first, but it's grown on me and I like it. Manbat is great. I love this version of the character. He's creepy and you never know what he's going to do next. (Although, I hope one of these days we'll see him mutate people with his spit, like he did in an early issue of The Batman Strikes! It was a great issue!) Yin is an excellent character, as is Bennett/Clayface - I'd be ok with seeing them cross over into main stream comics, much like Harley did with BTAS. Gordon and Batgirl are pretty accurate portrayals of the characters. Alfred's portrayal is dead on. I absolutely love him. I don't love the show like some here do - I'm not taping/TIVO-ing it and I don't kick the dog if I don't see it every week. ;D However, it is a good show and I would be upset if it wasn't on the air anymore. BTAS was a good show in it's own right - it did a lot of good things for the character, and it was around for a long time. (Heck, it might as well still be around, since that Batman is still appearing on JLU.) I don't want to diminish the impact BTAS had on the history of the franchise. I just think that each show should be allowed to stand on it's own merits, to be appreciated on it's own. As it is, many fans cannot do anything but compare the two shows and, I feel, are missing out on some good stuff.
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Post by /\/\att on Apr 21, 2006 22:23:18 GMT -5
Good friendly debate guys! Thats what I like to see.
As far as what Timm and Co think, I really don't feel that its relevant. I respect them..I love their work, but they don't OWN Batman. We don't have to clear all future bat-animation projects thru them. If they like it, great! What matters is that I, as a fan, like it..and my kids like it.
just my feeling
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Jukka
Gotham Tourist
I am an Artist of the Ladies But call me. . . Mister J.
Posts: 7
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Post by Jukka on Apr 22, 2006 4:27:37 GMT -5
Personally, I couldn't be happier!!! ...now to start making those Harley-designs like I was supposed to do, when I made that Harley-petition -thread. ;D
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Post by SRA on Apr 22, 2006 7:21:52 GMT -5
Oh and SRA if Joker has Harley and Penguin has the Kubuki twins... do you think I could be with Riddler and you with Ivy lol. ;D Well ??TheRiddler?? you can totally have Riddler - i will have my Ivy any day lol!
I do like this show alot and can see why some say its first season was weak but didn't BTAS etc. have weak episodes as well and even some of the comics {even thou i have not read many of them} had very weak narratives!
However i just love The Batman - its animation - designs - voices - are all amazing {as were BTAS etc.} But this whole thing of the Timm/Dini BTAS verses The Batman wont change it at all - i am very happy that we are getting what we are - We have another new Season coming with a FAN FAVE - Harley Quinn - We got my Fave villain - Poison Ivy - We have got amazing New ones like GearHead etc. Im just happy to be getting what i am!
They have added new spins on their characters - CLayface being probs the best! Hugo Strange getting his story arch into being a villain. A DTV Dracula movie which i yet to see but have heard it was great! My Point is - if you dont like it - dont watch it; But all this comparing will not make eigher show better - they are different interpretations - if everone on LOG wrote/designed a new batman show they would all be different! I love this Show and am behind it all the way - even though im a fan of BTAS/STAS etc. BRING ON SEASON 4!!
SRA
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Post by /\/\att on Apr 22, 2006 11:22:53 GMT -5
I'm really excited about this one...none of us thought they COULD bring Harley onto the show...and not only are they brining her, but with Dini taking the charge! WOW
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Post by The Dark Knight on Apr 22, 2006 11:32:37 GMT -5
I really want to see how Dini can bring back his creation into a new form! Change is always something unexpected that turns out great! I know that the new Dini Harley Quinn is going to have a fantastic entrance into The Batman world! I'm just so excited Paul Dini's actually going to write an episode for The Batman! He has to, without a doubt, be one of the most talented writers in the DC District! I loved The World's Finest, Return of the Joker, and so many more of his famous scripts! Season 4 is going to be a blast!
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Post by ??The Riddler?? on Apr 22, 2006 12:15:01 GMT -5
I'm really excited about this one...none of us thought they COULD bring Harley onto the show...and not only are they brining her, but with Dini taking the charge! WOW [shadow=green,left,300] Matt, I was wondering seeing almost all of the characters have changed there appearances what do you expect will happen to Harley? I for one think she will have a tweek to herself but I'm happy on whatever design they come up with. You can say that again Tim, I can't wait for Season 4 along with *drum roll please* The Riddler! [/shadow]
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Post by RJ on Apr 22, 2006 12:15:56 GMT -5
Very true, Paul Dini is the perfect person to bring this character to life on The Batman. I for one, can wait to see her re-design and how she fits into this new world for Batman.
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Post by /\/\att on Apr 22, 2006 16:50:53 GMT -5
I'm really excited about this one...none of us thought they COULD bring Harley onto the show...and not only are they brining her, but with Dini taking the charge! WOW [shadow=green,left,300] Matt, I was wondering seeing almost all of the characters have changed there appearances what do you expect will happen to Harley? I for one think she will have a tweek to herself but I'm happy on whatever design they come up with. You can say that again Tim, I can't wait for Season 4 along with *drum roll please* The Riddler! [/shadow] I'll be honest with you all..I haven't seen Harley yet..I don't know what direction she'll go. I Personally would like to see her take more of a dark punk/gothy look...much like they did with Rogue in X-Men Evolution. Thats just me, though. I think you guys will like Robin though..more traditional.
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Post by blinker on Apr 22, 2006 16:55:36 GMT -5
Traditional? I like, I like. But its still the question of what costume though. I hoping for Drake's costume (1st). I would go for the OYL one but maybe later, when Drake really comes into play in the show.
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Post by /\/\att on Apr 22, 2006 18:07:50 GMT -5
Traditional? I like, I like. But its still the question of what costume though. I hoping for Drake's costume (1st). I would go for the OYL one but maybe later, when Drake really comes into play in the show. I've already told you guys a number of times that the costume will be traditional colors
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Post by blinker on Apr 22, 2006 18:35:54 GMT -5
Oh. I didn't mean that. I know it will be in the same colors, why wouldn't it be. I was talking about its design.
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Post by Celticsfan on Apr 22, 2006 21:52:07 GMT -5
Whoa, cool! I had no idea Harley would be showing up next season. And I look forward to seeing her even more knowing that Dini is involved.
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Post by The Dark Knight on Apr 22, 2006 22:18:47 GMT -5
Whoa, cool! I had no idea Harley would be showing up next season. And I look forward to seeing her even more knowing that Dini is involved. Seems to be the overall reaction Welcome Celticsfan! I seem to be 2 weeks late but I hope you enjoy it here on LoG!
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Post by JimmyPSHayes on Apr 23, 2006 5:50:06 GMT -5
If ture, this IS great news!!!
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Post by The Dark Knight on Apr 23, 2006 9:08:16 GMT -5
If ture, this IS great news!!! It's confirmed. So it's very true!
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Post by /\/\att on Apr 23, 2006 21:48:25 GMT -5
If ture, this IS great news!!! Hey Jimmy! Long time, no chat. It IS indeed true.
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bskcase
Legions of Gotham Police Officer
Bring it!
Posts: 204
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Post by bskcase on Apr 25, 2006 21:57:57 GMT -5
I think Dini and the rest of the original crew know that every generation has their own heroes. This Batman is being served to the newer generation. These kids will grow up like we did and consider this Batman as the best one.
Its the way things work. The Dini/Timm Batman had their time and they will go down in history. Its time for a new look for the times.
I think Dini will do a great job introducing Harley. I almost expect a new version with a different attitude. A new Harley for a new Joker.
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CM
Gotham Tourist
Posts: 15
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Post by CM on Apr 25, 2006 22:31:37 GMT -5
This Batman is being served to the newer generation. These kids will grow up like we did and consider this Batman as the best one. I don't totaly agree with that statment. Alot of kids will still consider TAS the best. I always use my son as an example. He's almost 8. Out of TAS, BB and TB, he chooses Batman Beyond. If not that, he'll choose a JL with alot of Batman. Though he like TT a little better... While he loves all things Batman, and he wants all the toys, (well, most of the time, he's picky when it comes to TB, in fact he chose a JL figure over the Riddler not to long ago) The point is, there will be those who perfer The Batman, and those who perfer TAS. I'm nutral. I was not a fan of TB, I've grown to like it. I should Christian (my son) the Robin design, and he is really excited. Robin is is all time favorite, so that might turn him onto TB more. Same with Harley, I think it'll bring alot of old fans around, I'm really looking forward to seeing her as well...
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Post by Green Ghost on Apr 26, 2006 13:19:50 GMT -5
Paul Dini confirmed it now two at his blog: kingofbreakfast.livejournal.com/25257.html" In other Batnews, as it's been announced by Warner Bros., I guess I can confirm the rumors are true -- Harley Quinn will be coming to THE BATMAN this fall and I've written her debut script. Congrats by the way, to THE BATMAN crew on their daytime Emmy wins this week. Alan Burnett figures he has won an Emmy for each different incarnation of Batman he's produced. The JUSTICE LEAGUE shows don't count as he didn't work on them and they weren't Batman solo series."
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Post by blinker on Apr 27, 2006 14:17:17 GMT -5
In case any of you are interested, this is what Paul Dini said about how he feels about The Batman:
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Post by clownophobic on Apr 30, 2006 6:33:23 GMT -5
Yay! This episode just can't be bad.
It's amazing what can happen. When The Batman was not even finished with season 2 there were people thinking about Harley in this show, but many said that it would be impossible. And then one of the users here posted a topic about Harley and asking if users here make a difference. Maybe we did...?
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