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Post by supermanisbetter on Jul 18, 2008 7:26:34 GMT -5
SPOILERS.......
may still be alive....
As far as I'm concerned they kinda left it ambiguous...
SPOILERS
Yes he did fall, yes there was a body, but if Batman could survive it, I don't think it's that far-fetched to assume that Harvey did too. At first I thought his neck kinda looked broken, but now I'm not so sure. And the movie ended with Batman escaping (I'm assuming the press conference was the next morning so only a few hours passed, not alot of time had passed)
so what do you think?
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Shadow
Legions Of Gothamite
Posts: 40
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Post by Shadow on Jul 18, 2008 9:31:00 GMT -5
I think he lived. I don't think anyone can say with 100 percent certainty that Two Face died. What we don't see is what happens in the time after Batman escapes the police and the City wake for Dent. Take note it is a wake, not a funeral. The arms outstretching body on the ground is the last we see of Dent. It is left open for interpretation.
Like you say, Batman fell from a similar height. Yes, he was wearing the new Batsuit, but it doesn't really matter in my opinion. The armour would absorb some of it, but Batman recovered pretty quickly. Dent, in just his suit, could possibly survive from that height but be more hurt, hence him still lying there.
It may be possible in the time period from Batman escaping and the wake that Gordon locked Dent away in Arkham to hide him - and they are faking his death to hide the truth. This is to make sure the Joker doesn't win and his message of hope lives on in the form of a martyr.
remember in Dark Victory, Joker shoots Two Face and he falls off a cliff in the batcave - only later to show he is alive. This could be a reference to this, slighty updated in circumstances of course.
Also, A novel called Batman Inferno set after TDK says Dent is alive and well, getting treatment at Arkham Asylum. It just depends if that is considered canon.
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Post by scarecrow29 on Jul 18, 2008 14:25:51 GMT -5
The height wasn't much higher than what Maroni fell from, so I think Face is just knocked out. They held the memorial for Dent because they didn't want the public to see the monster he had become.
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Jul 18, 2008 20:00:54 GMT -5
Well, it really didn't show how he landed. If you land in a bad way, it is quite possible that Dent would die and Batman would not. How are they going to preserve Dent's message of hope if he is still alive? Hiding him away? Whenever he breaks out, it is going to be pretty easy to tell that Dent is Two Face. It is possible he survived. I could see it going either way.
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Post by scarecrow29 on Jul 18, 2008 20:30:22 GMT -5
The way I see it, if he can survive a car tumbling over with his seatbelt off, he can survive falling down three stories or so. Then again, and don't get me wrong, while I love the character of Two Face, he's only good for so many things. After his initial origin story, he becomes a sorta useless character, and does the same things over. I'd love to see him in another movie, but what would he do in it? I don't know.
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Post by All Star Batman on Jul 18, 2008 21:53:36 GMT -5
First, let me just say that he looked awesome. Much more better than than the half-pink face we got in Forever.
Now, as for the fall. At first I though he survived, but after the wake I wasn't sure. But I still think he survived. Dark Nightwing pointed out about how he landed. I think Batman took most of the impact, and his armor absorbed most of it, leaving his okay, but Harvey could've hit his head which knocked him out. But scarecrow29 brings up a good point too. If he could survive a car flipping over with a seatbelt on, he could probably survive that fall.
And darkknight007, I've read Inferno, and I consider it canon, along with the other two novels Dead White and Fear Itself. But that's getting off topic.
I guess we just need to wait and see what they do with Shadow of the Bat (that's what I heard they might call the 3rd one).
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Jul 19, 2008 2:39:48 GMT -5
Maybe he landed in a good way during the car wreck and landed in a bad way at the end. I think Two Face was great in this film, but I don't know if there is really enough with him to sustain a whole other movie. I hope we get to see Riddler. This would also be a good time to introduce Catwoman considering that Bruce isn't going after Rachel anymore.
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Post by dhunter333 on Jul 19, 2008 15:23:25 GMT -5
i wish there was a halloween like scene where batman runs away gordan looks back and two face is gone
that would be AWSOME
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Post by All Star Batman on Jul 19, 2008 16:44:17 GMT -5
Maybe he landed in a good way during the car wreck and landed in a bad way at the end. I think Two Face was great in this film, but I don't know if there is really enough with him to sustain a whole other movie. I hope we get to see Riddler. This would also be a good time to introduce Catwoman considering that Bruce isn't going after Rachel anymore. I'm hoping in the third film, Two-Face will escape and the people will then see what Harvey's become, and Batman will be cleared and they may realize that Batman can be a symbol of hope in the city, their hero, their dark knight (sorry, had to to that). Speaking of Riddler, remember when we were all thinking that Anthony Michael Hall would play him or at least be Edward Nigma in this movie? I thought he would have a bigger role in this, not just a couple spots on TV and one of Joker's hostages. If Catwoman does appear, I hope Nolan does her good enough to make people to forget the sack of crap that was Halle Barrie's Catwoman. As for Rachel, I was actually sad that she died, and I actually liked her in that one. Oh why couldn't Katie Holmes have still played her?! That way I wouldn't have cared. Then again, then we'd have to hear about her talk about Cruise on all the talk shows. You know, last night on the Soup on E!, they were coming back from commercial and they had a pie chart with the poll "What will you be seeing this weekend?" 99% said the Dark Knight with a picture of the teaser poster, and 1% said "Stop rubbing it in!" with a picture of Katie Holmes.
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Jul 19, 2008 18:26:07 GMT -5
I think in the third film, Batman will be hunted by the police throughout the film. I loved this movie so much more than BB, but I don't think it ended quite as well. I don't care for Batman versus the cops. It has always seemed counter-productive. A part of me wanted a clue that Riddler would be in the next one, but I didn't really expect to get such a clue.
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trashsmasher
Legions of Gotham Police Officer
Death does not wait for you to be ready!
Posts: 194
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Post by trashsmasher on Jul 19, 2008 21:21:25 GMT -5
SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just saw the movie for the third time..............first of all, I am 100% convinced Harvey is DEAD. 1. He wasn't breathing when he was lying on the ground 2. Gordon and Bat's spoke as if he were dead or expired
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Post by blackmask on Jul 20, 2008 11:27:51 GMT -5
It wasn't that big of a fall.
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Post by cdncapedcrusader on Jul 20, 2008 13:05:43 GMT -5
Personally think that the reemergence of Two-Face will be the catalyst that exonerates Batman in the third film. It will likely be a gangland/war type of film with Harvey vs. what is left of the mob and perhaps Gordon. They may have Catwoman running through it as a type of robin hood esqe type of charater ala 'Her sisters keeper'; with Selina also ripping off the mob.
I figure that Harvey is still alive however they portrayed it to appear as though he MAY be dead in order to strengthen the emotions at the end. With Harvey appearing deceased to the public in Gotham and Batman taking the fall the ending is just so much more powerful. It was best done this way now and start the third film with Harvey's status than to compromise the integrity of TDK to plant seeds for the sequel. Gordon burying Harvey underground/in Arkham may raise some interesting morality questions for the third film as well.
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Post by supermanisbetter on Jul 20, 2008 18:53:48 GMT -5
The way I see it, if he can survive a car tumbling over with his seatbelt off, he can survive falling down three stories or so. Then again, and don't get me wrong, while I love the character of Two Face, he's only good for so many things. After his initial origin story, he becomes a sorta useless character, and does the same things over. I'd love to see him in another movie, but what would he do in it? I don't know. but he had his seatbelt on in the wreck. Anyway i say if he can survive losing half his face a fall is possible too
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Post by holyusernamebatman on Jul 21, 2008 11:35:14 GMT -5
i don't think he died and i think we'll see him in the 3rd film. i think it's one of those "the man who was harvey dent is dead" but two face is still alive. i hope he comes back in the 3rd film Aaron Eckhart was awesome!
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Post by cessnadriver on Jul 21, 2008 13:48:58 GMT -5
First post. Lurked here off and on for years, so overdue. But it is an important post.
I too feel that Dent did not die. That scene ruined the film for one of my friends. The Batman doesn't kill. We know that. And yet, though it was understandable why he did it, it appears that he did. Perhaps kill is not the right word, but still.
I came out rather stunned, and kept thinking, wait a minute, I was still thinking about what I saw. My friend was furious and depressed. The film was so good, up till then.
The Batman always finds a way? Doesn't he?
Well yeah, He always does in the comics.
So right away, I starting thinking this was how so many comics end. You think the vilian is done, only to return again. Classic comic cliffhanger.
We all know how important Dent is to Bruce Wayne in the Bat mythos and his future as Batman. He never gives up on his friend, never gives up trying to save him from Two Face, always thinking and trying for rehabilitation and treatment. It makes at least once criminal very personal for him. That is important for the character.
That coin landing good side, life side up after it fell, not caught buy Two Face, but fell to the ground, just like Two Face. Must have meant something. I refuse to believe it meant it was for the kid. Only if he caught it could it have meant that.
He fell not very far at all especially by movie standards, the whole movie had people falling, and they went out of there way to show how expert Batman was on what happens to people when they fall certain distances. Good grief I was surprised Rachel was ok after that penthouse fall.
Falling is a huge Metaphor through these films as we know.
Wayne learns to pick himself up, and I believe he will help Dent to pick himself up too.
It was a rubble pile, not hard concrete, he had a little side motion too, dissapates energy a little more, and of course Batman gets up and walks away from it, suit or no, that is telling to me that this is survivable.
I mean that was a lame fall for showing a Villian die.
The two of them laying together also I thought was symbolic of thier future relationship I thought. Brothers in the war on crime, in the war on personal darkness.
I cannot believe Nolan would flush all that down the toilet. Not after just telling an origin storie so brilliantly.
Not after getting everything right through two films.
There is so much more story to tell with Two Face.
And I aqree strongly with the previous poster, that Two Face will be a key in clearing Batman of those murders. The Dark Knight will not be hunted forever.
We WILL see the Bat signal over Gotham again.
I have to believe Two Face is alive. In fact I must believe it, because the Batman I know would never let him die.
And I am convinced that Nolan believes in that same Batman as I.
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Jul 21, 2008 17:36:07 GMT -5
I've never cared for characters to seemingly die and then come back. Because in real life, people don't do that. Not even Elvis or Colonel Sanders. I didn't care for Gordon's "death" either.
Batman is not Superman. He saves people he can, but he isn't able to save everyone.
Two Face never really made much sense to me and here is why. He is smart, he has leadership skills, and he has a gun. But along with those things, he has to flip a coin first. Wouldn't your average Joe killer with a gun be more of a threat? I'm not insulting the character at all. I'm just trying to better understand why he is so much of a threat. I have similar feelings toward Penguin.
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Post by Batman_Returns on Jul 22, 2008 3:37:14 GMT -5
I think it's a possibility too. I've seen the movie twice, and I cant really believe that a character like two face could have a little role on the big screen.
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Post by crazyhatter on Jul 22, 2008 13:42:51 GMT -5
I've never cared for characters to seemingly die and then come back. Because in real life, people don't do that. Not even Elvis or Colonel Sanders. I didn't care for Gordon's "death" either. Batman is not Superman. He saves people he can, but he isn't able to save everyone. Two Face never really made much sense to me and here is why. He is smart, he has leadership skills, and he has a gun. But along with those things, he has to flip a coin first. Wouldn't your average Joe killer with a gun be more of a threat? I'm not insulting the character at all. I'm just trying to better understand why he is so much of a threat. I have similar feelings toward Penguin. He is sticking with his gimmick. Two-Faced Harvey Dent, two sides to every coin, two sides to the law; innocent and guilty. Personally I think the character is brilliant but that's just my opnion.
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Jul 22, 2008 18:52:56 GMT -5
Oh, I like the character's psyche. I just don't see where Two Face is that much of a threat.
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Post by cessnadriver on Jul 22, 2008 19:27:33 GMT -5
I keep seeing people saying that Eckhart had a two film contract. Anyone know where they are getting that from?
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Post by BruceBatman on Jul 22, 2008 20:00:23 GMT -5
Well, I don't know. We could possibly see Two-Face again. But he was "dead" for a long time in TDK. Too long to fake it. So I don't think he will return. I hope he doesn't too, because we need to see as many Bat-Villains as possible. We don't need to bring them all back!
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Post by cessnadriver on Jul 23, 2008 2:16:19 GMT -5
I think Nolan is running out of choices actually for usable Nolan-verse villians. Expecting all new villians everytime I think is a bit much, I fully expect Two Face to be back to some degree. How else will the Batman's name be cleared?
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Post by electri on Aug 2, 2008 15:30:53 GMT -5
but I think harvey could be because batman rugby hit him right off no falling while holding anything like an edge but i'm not sure I've only seen it twice
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Post by Earl Cooper on Aug 2, 2008 16:24:23 GMT -5
According to the official shooting script in the production art book, Harvey dies from fall.
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Post by crazyhatter on Aug 2, 2008 17:17:34 GMT -5
According to the official shooting script in the production art book, Harvey dies from fall. I'll believe it when I see it in the next movie. I still think he survived and is locked away in Arkham
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Post by All Star Batman on Aug 2, 2008 21:20:41 GMT -5
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Post by tanman17 on Aug 5, 2008 23:42:16 GMT -5
I think this could make the most sense. During the beginning or to the middle of the third film, Batman has taken all the blame, and Gotham does not want him crimefighting anymore, he still foils some criminals, but the public has a tough time respecting him. Half-way through the film, Two-face reemerges and Gotham realizes that it does need Batman. ZING!
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Post by cessnadriver on Aug 6, 2008 2:24:18 GMT -5
I would call that a pretty signifigant source. And I think it will remain ambiguous as intended until the third, when he comes back. They really needed people to think he is dead for any kind of comeback to have impact on the audience, and on the people of Gotham.
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Aug 6, 2008 12:15:29 GMT -5
Yeah, I think that they did this so that there will be something to speculate on between the second and third. Other than Two Face being alive or dead, there really isn't that much the movie gave us to think about between movies. Begins had that great bit with the Joker card. TDK had Batman running away from the cops. There really isn't that much to speculate on for that except "How are they going to make things the way they were?" Of course the viral marketing has given more to speculate on. It has given some pretty good hints that the Riddler will be the next villain and their is always speculation about who else will be in it. But in the movie itself, there really isn't that much to think about in between, except for a throw away line about cats.
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