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Post by BruceBatman on May 7, 2009 20:52:47 GMT -5
Lately I have been reading a lot of Batman stuff, news, reviews, anything I can get my hands on (of course, but what I'm talking about is lately more online than usual). But I have noticed a very interesting fact, it seems when it comes to the 2008 summer blockbuster hit movie The Dark Knight, people can get very opinionated (though this is very understandable, lol), but they usually either love it to death or hate it with a passion. My neighbor, and older man in his 60's who owns a comic shop hates it! He doesn't like anything about it! He said he's from the Batman movie serial, 1966 Batman, and 1989-1997 Batman ages and he loves all of them, but he thinks that this new series strays too much from the character and stretches him in weird directions. And the main things he hates are what us lovers love the most, the Joker, the Batmobile, and the BatPod. He hates all of them. And a little while ago I read a news article that a fan wrote. He said he likes The Dark Knight and all, but he says us lovers just need to shut up and get over it, it was okay and it had it's time. He said it wasn't that good. He feels the Joker was very different and screwy, that there are tons of Joker interpretations but we all find this one definitive. He doesn't understand it he said. Then there are the few on LOG, the REAL Batman Homepage's forum that I've read like the original Batman (1989) better with Jack Nicholson Joker and all. Then there are those fans like me that absolutely LOVED The Dark Knight, and probably always will, I'll never get over it! It's just that good. I loved the Batmobile, BatPod, Two-Face, and especially the Joker!!!!!!! It was just great! So what are all of your opinions on The Dark Knight? LOG is the REAL Batman Homepage!
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Post by BruceBatman on May 7, 2009 21:03:56 GMT -5
Oops, sorry guys. I accidentally voted Hate It when i meant to vote Love It.
LOG is the REAL Batman Homepage!
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Post by All Star Batman on May 7, 2009 22:50:50 GMT -5
Love it. The haters have no taste.
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Post by batmanofbaylor on May 8, 2009 0:08:37 GMT -5
^this. I don't know how you couldn't love it. Quality film.
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Post by havedunter74 on May 8, 2009 8:01:43 GMT -5
There are some very narrow minde people indeed. I find that only true Bat-fans love this film and still talk about it.
I have it on DVD and watch it on a regular basis and it never fails to entertain. I would have to say that it is THE best "superhero" movie since the original Superman movie. All the Marvel movies except the Punisher have been aimed at kids I feel.
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Post by kilowog52 on May 8, 2009 9:33:06 GMT -5
I didn't love it or hate it. It was really good but there are plenty of movies that are better than it. And I didn't like their Joker.
The Burton movies were just plain awful. The Shumacher films were better that Burton's. But Nolan's films are way better than Schumacher's.
And for the record, I didn't care for Superman 1 or the Punisher. And I thought plenty of the Marvel Movies were fantastic. As for DC, they really havn't made any movies aside from the horrible Superman movis, the horrible Batman movies, and the good Nolan Batman movies. They were supposed to make Wonder Woman, Flash, and Shazam! into movies, but they never did. In the near future they are going to make a Green Lantern movie, a Green Arrow movie, a Justice League of America movie, better Superman movies, and much more. I am looking forward to all of that. Marvel is going to do Iron Man 2, Thor, Ant-Man, The Avengers, and Spiderman 4, all of which I am also looking forward to. And no, I do not think any superhero movie to date was particularly aimed at kids. But so what if they were. Batman: The Brave and the Bold is aimed at kids and all us diehard fans enjoy it.
Thank you for reading my rant.
Kilowog52
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Post by Dark Nightwing on May 8, 2009 9:49:41 GMT -5
^Good speech kilowog. I think you have a lot of insight into DC's movies. In all fairness, DC does have quite a few movies out there, but very few of them are actually of their big names. Batman and Superman are it. They do have quite a few graphic novel adaptations, so I would say they are still doing pretty well. I think where DC has always shined was in its animation. There have been some really fantastic shows that have come out of DC. While Marvel has some great animated shows, they seem to be less frequent.
As for the topic at hand, I think most people enjoyed it. The people that have spoken out against it probably do not speak for the majority. Someone who holds the Batman mythos as sacred probably wouldn't like TDK.
The second guy you speak of has a point. I understand where he comes from completely. I have seen this a lot where people are fans of something, but they dislike the other fans. I've done this myself. I like the Harry Potter books, but I don't get the Harry Potter fans.
I really like The Dark Knight, but it can be improved on. I really like Heath's Joker, but there are many other different interpretations I would like to see as well. I think people probably have built up this movie too high. There is no way to be happy with a sequel with such high expectations and thinking TDK is perfect. Nolan can still improve and I look forward to seeing if he pulls it off.
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Post by jlavaia on May 8, 2009 10:13:29 GMT -5
i have no vote either way really. i didnt love it, but i certainly didnt hate it. see the problem for me is that Nolan kept saying that he used certain comics as reference and took certain things from the comics and thats just not true. as a Batman comic fan, i feel the movie is terrible because its not even close to its source material. but if you look at the movie and dont think of it as Batman, or think of it as Elseworlds, than its a quality film thats very entertaining.
i think that the people that hate the film are people who dont like what Nolan has done to the characters. i would say that they feel he is trying to take away what far superior writers did before him and he has no respect for the people that made it possible for him to get that job.
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Post by BruceBatman on May 8, 2009 11:56:42 GMT -5
All of you guys make very good points!! thanks for posting your opinions! There are some very narrow minde people indeed. I find that only true Bat-fans love this film and still talk about it. I have it on DVD and watch it on a regular basis and it never fails to entertain. I would have to say that it is THE best "superhero" movie since the original Superman movie. All the Marvel movies except the Punisher have been aimed at kids I feel. But I agree with above statements very well!! I as well find the haters narrowminded and annoying! I feel a true Batman fan loves EVERY incarnation! I also have it on DVD (and I have a copy on my phone too) and watch it a lot, and every time I watch it, I see something I didn't notice before, I fugure out something I didn't quite understand before, whatever. And every time I watch it is as entertaining as the first. LOG is the REAL Batman Homepage!
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Post by gothamknight1992 on May 8, 2009 17:28:24 GMT -5
I like The Dark Knight but since "Like it" is not an option I chose Love it. I can't predict the future but I have a feeling the next Batman film will have it's work cut out for it because threequels in comic book film franchises have always been failures.
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Post by jlavaia on May 8, 2009 17:59:36 GMT -5
^ Blade: Trinity would like a word.
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Post by darambler20 on May 8, 2009 19:39:33 GMT -5
The movie is the 2nd highest grossing movie of all time. This says something. Great Movie.
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Post by gothamknight1992 on May 8, 2009 20:40:18 GMT -5
^ Blade: Trinity would like a word. I've never liked the Blade franchise to begin with so that comment doesn't hold any water with me.
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Post by jlavaia on May 8, 2009 20:47:53 GMT -5
^ Blade: Trinity would like a word. I've never liked the Blade franchise to begin with so that comment doesn't hold any water with me. just because you dont like a film, it doesnt make it a failure. you stated that threequels in comic film franchises have always been failures. Blade: Trinity was far from a failure. it did decent at the box office, story was great, and Trinity's success is what led to the fantastic Blade: The Series. so no, not all comic based threequels have been failures.
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Post by gothamknight1992 on May 9, 2009 0:55:35 GMT -5
I've never liked the Blade franchise to begin with so that comment doesn't hold any water with me. just because you dont like a film, it doesnt make it a failure. you stated that threequels in comic film franchises have always been failures. Blade: Trinity was far from a failure. it did decent at the box office, story was great, and Trinity's success is what led to the fantastic Blade: The Series. so no, not all comic based threequels have been failures. Yeah and Spider-Man 3 broke box office records and it spawned The Spectacular Spider-Man: Animated Series but that doesn't mean it was a good movie. When I said "failures" what I really meant was threequels that don't have the same level of quality as the preceding films. As a comic book movie gets more and more sequels the quality begins to diminish because Hollywood doesn't how to keep a consistant quality while treading on new ground. Even Jon Favreau (the director of Iron Man) said in his interview on Cinemagic that threequels are a problem. Although he did praise part two sequels and Favreau even said that Superman II was better than Superman: The Movie.
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Post by BruceBatman on May 9, 2009 20:38:40 GMT -5
Yeah, and Batman Forever needs a word in it too! It was a third segment in a movie franchise and in my opinion, it was one of the best in the original franchise, it's between Batman and Batman Forever! Not to mention it was the second best in box office earnings in that franchise!! So I think Nolan should do a third segment because it could be epic. I mean if Edison quit because nobody in the past could finish the lightbulb, we wouldn't have it! I mean it's worth a chance. I mean Nolan is different. In the past sequels weren't so great either! They NEVER outdid the original! Not even Spiderman 2 did, almost did, but not quite. But Nolan changed this with The Dark Knight, it was the first sequel (at least in a comic book movie franchise that was better than the first!
LOG is the REAL Batman Homepage!
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Post by All Star Batman on May 9, 2009 22:43:10 GMT -5
Yeah, and Batman Forever needs a word in it too! It was a third segment in a movie franchise and in my opinion, it was one of the best in the original franchise, it's between Batman and Batman Forever! Not to mention it was the second best in box office earnings in that franchise!! So I think Nolan should do a third segment because it could be epic. I mean if Edison quit because nobody in the past could finish the lightbulb, we wouldn't have it! I mean it's worth a chance. I mean Nolan is different. In the past sequels weren't so great either! They NEVER outdid the original! Not even Spiderman 2 did, almost did, but not quite. But Nolan changed this with The Dark Knight, it was the first sequel (at least in a comic book movie franchise that was better than the first! LOG is the REAL Batman Homepage! I disagree, I think Spider-Man 2 was better than the first.
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Post by coliv1977 on May 9, 2009 22:47:23 GMT -5
I disagree, I think Spider-Man 2 was better than the first. I agree 100%
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Post by jlavaia on May 10, 2009 9:51:42 GMT -5
In the past sequels weren't so great either! They NEVER outdid the original! Not even Spiderman 2 did, almost did, but not quite. But Nolan changed this with The Dark Knight, it was the first sequel (at least in a comic book movie franchise that was better than the first! i have to agree with All-Star and the professor, Spider-Man 2 was much better than the first Spider-Man. i also feel that X2 was better than the first X-Men movie and Rise of the Silver Surfer was better than the first Fantastic 4 movie too. there are alot of sequels that are better than the original, especially in comic movies.
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Post by batman1973 on May 10, 2009 14:28:58 GMT -5
From a comic fan perspective all the Batman movies sucked @$$. None were accurate or faithful to the comics. Having said that, as a movie lover, I liked both Batman '89 and The Dark Knight. Heath Ledger's Joker was just plain awesome. I like Keaton's Batman better than Bale's.
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Post by All Star Batman on May 10, 2009 17:28:46 GMT -5
In the past sequels weren't so great either! They NEVER outdid the original! Not even Spiderman 2 did, almost did, but not quite. But Nolan changed this with The Dark Knight, it was the first sequel (at least in a comic book movie franchise that was better than the first! i have to agree with All-Star and the professor, Spider-Man 2 was much better than the first Spider-Man. i also feel that X2 was better than the first X-Men movie and Rise of the Silver Surfer was better than the first Fantastic 4 movie too. there are alot of sequels that are better than the original, especially in comic movies. But somehow they fall apart the third one.
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Post by Dark Nightwing on May 11, 2009 9:15:12 GMT -5
I also think that Spiderman 2 is better than the first. Me not being much of a Spiderman fan, I was quite impressed with what the second one was able to accomplish. The first one wasn't that impressive, in my opinion.
I can also say that X2 is about equal with the first one. It's hard to give the edge to either one because they are both classics in my eyes.
I have my fingers crossed that we can finally get a satisfying to a third installment with Nolan.
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Post by Eric on May 11, 2009 20:47:35 GMT -5
Dont love it, dont hate it. It was a good movie, but I think the mainstream hype, as well as the box office, was mainly due to Ledgers death. Those who think otherwise are blind.
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Post by Dark Nightwing on May 12, 2009 9:24:40 GMT -5
Dont love it, dont hate it. It was a good movie, but I think the mainstream hype, as well as the box office, was mainly due to Ledgers death. Those who think otherwise are blind. I wouldn't say that the hype and box office are mainly due to Ledger's death. This movie had a ton of hype to begin with. While Batman Begins didn't make a huge splash, people that saw it were looking forward to the next installment. Also, a lot of people didn't see BB in the movie theater, but had rented it or watched it on TV. That is one factor in the hype this movie had. Another factor is that this is Batman. Everyone knows who Batman is. He has a built in audience from most comic book fans. Other people really liked Batman from the Burton movies (maybe even the Schumacher ones) or the cartoons and would like to see another Batman movie. While Begins didn't do bad, it kind of flew under the radar a bit. The viral campaign was quite cool and successful too. This was a really neat way to get people talking about the movie. Sure, it probably appealed to people that were already going to see the movie, I don't doubt that it stirred up more discussion among people and hence more hype. Another factor is the fact that it was getting positive reviews. The movie is actually good. Friends that didn't go would hear how great the movie was and then go see it. A lot of people went to see it more than once because it was such a good movie. I never got to see it in IMAX, but I'd be very surprised if that didn't have some factor in the success of the movie. Many factors went into the success of the film. Heath's death no doubt had an impact on the box office success of the movie. But to say that that is the main reason seems a bit, dare I say, "blind."
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Post by Eric on May 12, 2009 10:01:28 GMT -5
Fair enough, and dont get me wrong. I really liked the movie. I think it was the best out of all of them. Not my favorite, 89 has that honor, but overall best. I just think that if Ledger hadnt died, there would not have been the coverage this thing received. Batman has had 5 motion pictures in the last 20 years until TDK, its really not as big a deal as it used to be. I think people have become numb to the "summer blockbuster", due in part to the fact that there are so many released now. I know several people who didnt go to see it in theaters and some who have never seen it at all. As big as we all want this franchise to be, there is still a certain realization that many need to come to understand. After all the hubbub the general public tends to put out of their minds all the hype and they are ready to move on to the next thing.
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Post by BruceBatman on May 12, 2009 12:18:51 GMT -5
Yeah, I disagree ShadowBat! I think it would have done the same if Ledger was still alive! I mean a good job is a good job, a death doesn't make it any more or any less!!
LOG is the REAL Batman Homepage!
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Post by Eric on May 12, 2009 13:00:42 GMT -5
Would his performance have received the attention it did if not for his death? Honestly, imo, no. There is also alot of fans & general moviegoers who did not like his version of Joker. Did he do a good job? Yes, but its all a matter of opinion.
The thing Im trying to convey here is this, everyone needs to put aside their own personal bias, either way, and realize that this movie is not the Gone with the Wind of our time.
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Post by MuksC on May 12, 2009 14:33:46 GMT -5
i don't love or hate it. i do really like it but it's far from perfect. i didn't like the whole ferry boat thing at the end, and also didn't like the action we saw through the sonar device, i'd have preferred to have seen more plain fist-fighting than all the computer effects. the whole last 30 mins of the movie is a let down for me personally.
Ledger was good, but the hype is clearly due to his death. that it broke so many box office records is all down to non-Batfans wanting to see his performance after learning of it after his death. the film itself was not enough to beat those records had it not been for his death, in my opinion.
i do hope they make a third movie though, as i love the style and realism of Nolan's two Batmovies so far. but TDK is far from "the best movie ever!!!"
don't get me wrong, i do like it, i saw it once at a normal cinema and once in IMAX, and pre-ordered the DVD as soon as it was available, but it does suffer from "The Emperor's New Clothes" syndrome a little. we looked forward to it for so long, 2 and a half years or so, and the anticipation of its release built up inside us so much that we want it to be amazing at the end of it.
but nothing can ever live up to that hype or expectation. all of us here were no doubt super-hyped up about it already, but this grew in the media when Ledger died, turning the movie into a massive phenomenon that wouldn't really have happened had he not sadly died.
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Post by Batlaw on May 12, 2009 17:42:11 GMT -5
I dont see TDK as "love it or hate it". I dont get that impression. To me TDK appears universally "liked" at very least. The few people saying they absolutely "hate it" are just being "contrarion" IMO.
Ledgers death undoubtedly helped promote the film and helped intrigue and motivate some moviegoers. It surely brought closer / greater attention to his performance. However; Ledgers death is not responsible for the movie's success. It also does not change the fact he gave an outstanding performance.
Both Ledgers performance and the movie itself have their own merits and are each worthy of a great deal of the praise theyve received.
That being said, TDK is far from perfect, and the fanatical hype of it has gotten silly (I felt the same way of Batman Begins).
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Post by Dark Nightwing on May 13, 2009 9:20:53 GMT -5
I think Batlaw said it the best; it was not a perfect movie though quite good, Ledger's death promoted the movie, but the fact that both of these have their own merits makes them worthy of some of the praise they have received.
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