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Post by Dark Nightwing on Sept 2, 2005 16:01:56 GMT -5
Before Batman and Robin came out in theaters, WB was already working on the fifth Batman. Unfortunately, B&R was an increbible suck fest . What little I know about the story for Batman Triumphant seemed to be fairly good. I want to hear, had we been in charge, how we could have gotten that series on the right track. Had WB came to us and said, "just make this one good". Restarting a story that had gone sour is much easier than trying to save one that a horribly painful chapter. Anyway, casting would be a big issue (remember it is not even Y2k yet, so try to cast stars that were "known" back then). What story, theme, tone, villain, title, music, etc. would you use?
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Post by Batlaw on Sept 2, 2005 17:08:02 GMT -5
LOL funny you should mention this too Iamthenightwing...
Back at the time (just after Batman Forever) I had toyed with what I would have liked to see in a "part 5". Oddly enough, it had many similarities with Batman Begins.
Essentially, I had envissioned Ra's as the primary antagonist and Killer Croc as his right hand man / muscle ala Ubu. Batman was to be attacked my mysterious initially unknown assailants on occation and thwart seemingly pointless crimes Etc. until through Detective work he discovers he is dealing with a "monster" (Croc) and that all was a ruse by Ra's as "tests". Ra's would be looking for a successor.
Bruce is introduced to Ra's at an annual Wayne Foundation gathering (Bruce would later notice Ra's from an old photo of his father's from the first such annual gathering and learn / assume Ra's immortality).
Meenwhile, Dick Grayson would be attending Gotham University and falling for the Phych. Proff's daughter... the Prof would be Jonathon Crane! Prof Crane has been secretly performing unauthorized experiments in fear on his students. as a result, his daughter dies while on a date with Dick Grayson. Crane learns of Dick's real identity and since now moreso considers it Dick's/Robin's fault (the "hero" failed to save her). Crane suffers further hardships such as loosing his job. He perfects his fear gas and takes the name Scarecrow and seeks his revenge on B+R. Scarecrow: "someone once said, the only thing we have to fear, is fear itself. "Allow me to introduce myself... I AM FEAR ITSELF!".
Meenwhile, Bruce has finally pieced together Ra's plans and Croc's I.D. and association Etc. Ra's intends to blow up all the Lazerus pits on the planet simultaniously therefore "destroying the world" and ruling the survivors blah blah blah.
Ra's "hideout" was to be set just outside Gotham (due to a Needed Lazerus pit) in the mountainous desert. This would require B+R to use a new gadget... the BAT-Tank! (ala DKR)
I dont remember much else or any other specifics or who I had in mind for casting, but I do remember thinking Jeff Goldblum and Christopher Loyed.
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Post by All Star Batman on Sept 2, 2005 17:13:13 GMT -5
I was 6 when BATMAN & ROBIN came out, so I was real excepting. But now, that I'm older and looked back on it, I realized that it sucked.
For the what would've been the 5th movie, I would've recast Michael Keaton as Batman. For villains, I would still have Liam Neeson as Ra's Al Ghul, instead of the Henri Ducard twist. Talia could be there too, and the Lazuras Pit. For allies, Batgirl and Robin will remain, along with Azrael and Huntress being added. Plus, I would have had Michelle Phiffer reprise her role as Catwoman.
I don't really have a story, but these would be the characters I would have. Plus at the end, I would not have them running at of infront of the Batsingnal.
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Post by J-Man on Sept 2, 2005 19:11:47 GMT -5
[shadow=purple,left,300]I thought this over about five years ago, when there was all this buzz over "Batman: Year One." I had also thought of a way to rewrite B&R (which would essentially have the same plot, sans Bane and Barbara Pennyworth), but I liked this better.
One idea I had was this: Barbara Pennyworth goes back to college, so her Batgirl is gone. Dick begins going to Gotham University, and while he's there he meets aspiring criminologist Barbara Gordon. Also, teaching at the university is Dr. Jonathan Crane. Dick becomes involved in Crane's fear-gas experiments. Soon, the Scarecrow emerges in Gotham City, and Batman and Robin are forced to stop him. However, Dick has been affected by the gas, and he is unable to perform his duties as Robin. An epidemic spreads through Gotham- much like what we saw in "Begins"- and it becomes a state of emergency. Batman isn't cutting it.
Enter the new Batgirl- Barbara Gordon, who discovers Scarecrow's identity and what's really going on. Batman, of course, discovers who she really is, while Dick, who is now dating her, remains oblivious. While the city in in ruins, Batman needs to stop the Scarecrow, who is planning on releasing the deadliest strain of his toxin via zeppelin. Batman, Robin and Batgirl go after the Scarecrow, who manages to connect Robin to Dick Grayson. Upon revealing Dick's identity to Batgirl, she reveals hers... The end is pretty much similar to the TNBA episode "Old Wounds," where Dick decides to quit his association with Batman and Gotham. Scarecrow is killed, and Gotham goes back to normal.
I liked the idea and almost wrote the script for it, I was extremely psyched. If I ever get the time, maybe I will write it, for fun. I thought it would be a good way to keep a sense of continuity with that franchise while fixing what Joel did wrong.
I even thought about Batman 6, which would have Black Mask and Clayface (maybe Scarface too).[/shadow]
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Post by All Star Batman on Sept 2, 2005 19:42:27 GMT -5
It's weird that we're all having the same villains that were in Begins. We're both coming up with ideas with Ra's Al Ghul and Scarecrow. It's like Nolan knew what villains the fans wanted to see on the bug screen.
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Post by Batman Prevails on Sept 2, 2005 22:40:59 GMT -5
I remember several rumours regarding Batman 5 and the use of the Scarecrow. I would have loved a live-action movie using the BTAS design . I thought a Batman (still wearing a rubbersuit though) with BTAS or TNBA colors and style would have looked awesome. I even wanted the use of white lenses for the cowl.
I thought that Forever and especially B&R were too crazy and camp and I hoped they would try a new approach - not Burtonesque but still dark and gritty. Well ultimately that's how Begins turned out.
By the way they actually did a screen test for Batman Begins with white lenses but then they've realized that there is too much interaction if the eyes so the dropped that idea. I still think it would ahve looked interesting though.
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Sept 2, 2005 23:27:30 GMT -5
I even wanted the use of white lenses for the cowl. I thought that Forever and especially B&R were too crazy and camp The white lense thing is awesome in a cartoon or comic book. It just does not look good for live-action (even Adam West did not use them). I think that they should acknowledge that Batman puts makeup on his eyes though. Batman is so cool, he can pull off putting on makeup . If they don't, then they should do away with the makeup (which would suck). I don't know how many people agree/disagree, but I still think Batman Forever is a good movie. Did it fulfill its potential? No. Did they mess up on some of the characters? Yes. Did they have Batman trying to shoot down his villain? NO! In Forever, Batman has a psychological story, a pretty good intro for a sidekick, a business rival, and a not so secret identity for the villains. I think that Kilmer did a very good job as Batman as well. For everyone that says this one was a "cheesefest", I believe it has just the right blend of dark moments and fun jokes (the ground is all holey). I do hate Batman and Robin though. The story about Alfred dying was the only spec of potential. Batman Forever does not compare to Batman Begins, but it should definitely be compared with the rest of them (except for the awesome animated ones). Anyway, as soon as I get some more time to think, I will start on my Batman 5.
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TheKingpun
Legions of Gotham Police Officer
Posts: 215
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Post by TheKingpun on Sept 3, 2005 14:29:38 GMT -5
I thought of an interesting idea for Scarecrow to be literally turning people into their worst fears. Matt Hagen is a lackey for Crane and also an aspiring actor who wants everyone to recognize his face. So he gets turned into an amorphous blob AKA Clayface. Dr. Kirk Langstrom is about to blow the whistle on Crane's experiments so he is turned into a giant Bat. Crane meets up with Dr. Jarvis Tetch who offers a way to turn Gotham into Batman's nightmare by using mind control. Tetch and Crane use confiscated Nygma Tech technology to project a twisted version of Alice in Wonderland all over Gotham. That's the villain side of the story. Batman, Robin and Batgirls story is about Robin wanting to be a much higher profile figure in Gotham, more similar to Superman than Batman. But Batman doesn't believe that's what their job is, so the two once more have their battle of egos. Batgirl is basically torn between them because she love Grayson but Batman is much wiser. Halfway through the movie. Batman and Robin part ways but much more civilized than in Batman & Robin. Batman and Batgirl are overwhelmed by Scarecrow and Mad Hatter's nightmare world. They are rescued by Matt Hagen who has learned to control his new physical form. Hagen wants to kill Crane but Batman wont let him. So there's basically a three sided battle between Crane and Tetch vs. Clayface vs. Batman and Batgirl. Somehow Clayface is destroyed. Batman goes after Scarecrow and Batgirl goes after Mad Hatter. Scarecrow and Mad Hatter run away but Mad Hatter is caught by Dick Grayson, now as Nightwing. Scarecrow believes he's safe back in his old lab but Manbat is still there. Somehow Manbat kills the Scarecrow. It wraps up with Dr. Langstrom being cured with the help of a donation from Bruce Wayne. Batman and Nightwing agree that everything is as it should be between them. Nightwing leaves and hints that he may or may not see Batman and Batgirl around.
Go easy on it, I came up with that idea when I was in 8th grade.
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Post by All Star Batman on Sept 3, 2005 22:07:32 GMT -5
Very good story Kingpun. Good use of many villains (Scarecrow, Clayface, Man-Bat, and Mad Hatter, all good candidates).
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Sept 5, 2005 0:19:30 GMT -5
Batman: Redemption. With the backstory provided already, I have to completely change some things. I am going to write this in a series of chapters and parts. This is chapter one of the story part. I plan on having completely separate parts for musical direction, casting, and an other comments part for things I couldn't do in the other parts. The title "Redemtion" has to do more fully with Batman's knowledge that his parents were not just killed by Jack Napier. He worked for organized crime. This was a job. Not just some random killing. My movie would start with a wide shot of Gotham. Raining, lightning, and thundering. Camera goes all around a particular building. With the lightning strike, Batman is shown. He is in a perched position; his cape is all around his body. The camera zooms out, and then at the next lightning strike, it is reavealed Batman is perched under the W of Wayne enterprises. A closeup of Batman's face, then at the next lightning strike, a flashback. This flashback takes place after B&R. Bruce and Dick are trying to apprehend some random comic book villain (I am open to suggestions on this one), after capturing the bad guy, Batman dissappears. Robin tries to stick around for the press. Batman grabs Robin and they go onto the top of some building (if anybody has any ideas on a significant location, again I am open to suggestions). Batman says that he no longer wants to be a public figure, "It's our job to protect this city from those that wish to do it harm. I need for these people to fear me. I am only human, but in this suit, I am more. How will people fear me if four year old children are walking around, dressed in my likeness?" Dick replies, "It is our job to protect the people. We can't make people feel safe. Even though we are here, Gotham is not completely safe. It never will be. But if they feel safe, they can have a happy life." Bruce replies, "I just want them to live." Flashforward to the end of that lightning bolt.
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Sept 5, 2005 19:46:12 GMT -5
Chapter 2 (I am going to try to write a small chapter each day). The lightning has just flashed. The camera slowly zooms out from Batman. The moon has found a bit of an opening in clouds. The scene is easier to see now. The camera zooms out until it has Batman in the lower right hand corner, the rain is still coming down. In the center of the camera is the title "Batman: Redemption". No bat symbol other than the real Batman in the lower right hand corner. No heroic title music either. Just the sound of the rain. After the title and a few other credits, Batman blinks his eyes. When he opens his eyes, he is at a very formal dance (think of like really old European dance). The girl that he is dancing with says to Bruce, "You're trembling. Do I make you nervous?" He responds, "Actually, I was outside during last night big storm. I had better get going." As he is leaving, he is bombarded by the press. A reporter by the name of Eddie Smith takes the forefront, "Mr. Wayne, talk has been circulating that you are no longer running Wayne Enterprises. Is this true?" He responds, "Could you please excuse me? I need to get home and get healthy." "What is your alement (I don't know if I spelt this right)? Maybe you could share some of your companies home remedies." "No cure for the common cold." "Any comment on your love life. Anyone in consideration to be Mrs. Wayne. Perhaps, this Barbara Pennyworth that has been living in your house at the moment." "I would consider her as family, not as a relationship." "I'll bet. Anywords on the migration of your adopted son Dick Grayson." "I am leaving." He storms to the car where Alfred awaits. He gets in the car and Alfred drives off.
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TheKingpun
Legions of Gotham Police Officer
Posts: 215
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Post by TheKingpun on Sept 6, 2005 14:24:26 GMT -5
For the "random villain" how about The Killer Moth. I think that he can be portrayed in a humorous way, without making the movie cheesy. I think he just has a funny niche in the Bat Universe.
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Sept 6, 2005 16:51:09 GMT -5
For the "random villain" how about The Killer Moth. I think that he can be portrayed in a humorous way, without making the movie cheesy. I think he just has a funny niche in the Bat Universe. Thanks for the input ;D. I am already planning on using Killer Croc. I don't think putting both into the same movie is a wise idea because of the "killer" confusion. If I just referred to him as The Moth, I could use him. Another thing I thought of, is to use one of the original characters from the '66 TV show. If I gave them a cool redesign, that could be very interesting. I am still open to suggestions for either a comic book villain or '66 show villain. P.S. I may end up using The Moth.
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Sept 6, 2005 17:16:07 GMT -5
Chapter 3. Bruce is in the car as Alfred is driving home. Alfed says in a smart way, "Been having fun with the press?" Bruce responds, "They just won't leave me alone. The only time that they do, is when they are trying to find out who Batman is." "You could just tell all of them. Do you think that would get them out of your hair." "I believe that would just add fuel to this fire." An in-car phone starts to ring. Alfred answers it and passes the phone back to Bruce. "Hello." "It's Barbara, I am tracking some people that broke into this lab." "Why didn't the bat-signal go up." "The lab has had numerous dealing with the humane society, health department, and cop investigations. All kinds of places have tried to shut this place down. My guess is that they actually did have something very dangerous inside." "What is this place?" "It is a company that used to be a part of Nygma Tech. Nygma went into the Arkham most of the off-shoot companies found a good home at Wayne Enterprises. Unfortunately, this company wasn't legal when it was part of NT." "The Genetic Engineering facility?" "Yes." "How close are you?" "Right behind you're car." Bruce looks into the rearview mirror to see the batmobile.
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Sept 7, 2005 17:01:10 GMT -5
Chapter 4. Bruce jumps out of the car and goes into the batmobile. They had been at an abandoned place. Bruce enters the empty car. He speaks to Batgirl through to an intercom on the batmobile's computer. "Where did you go?" "I am chasing by motorcycle. Do you see me up ahead?" "Yeah. Looks like we are heading down to the docks." "You think that they are trying to dump something." "..." The Batmobile finally pulls behind the car that Batgirl was chasing. Batgirl starts driving behind the batmobile to avoid the bulletfire. After a long and intense chase scene, the back of this (I guess it is a van) swings wide open. One of the thugs throws over board a box. The batmobile just barely stops before running this thing over. The van gets away. Batman and Batgirl are both examining the box. Batgirl asks, "What do you think is in there? "I don't know. They must have really needed to have this thing though. That chase would have been over much sooner had this just been a box." "Back to the batcave?" Yeah. I doubt that we could find those guys right now. When they get to their boss, things will get messy. Organized crime syndicates have their own resolutions. Did you see what else was in that car?" "No." "A very big box, labeled with question marks." "So Nygma was behind what was in the van." "One way to find out. You analyze the box, I'm going to have a few words with Nygma." "I could go down their if you would like." "He has a certain connection with me. Besides, it would be best to show everyone in Arkham that they are better off not to act up.
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Sept 8, 2005 20:49:57 GMT -5
Chapter 5. The main thug from the van is alone in an office. The man that threw the box out the can enters. The main guy says, "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!! You know that he is going to have you and more importantly ME killed." "We still have the important one." "That isn't good enough. He told us to get both of them. The one we have, won't work without the other." The phone rings. The main guy answers the phone. "Hello." "Yes, Mr. Boss... We got the big one...Well, we lost the little one... Very gracious of you, sir... We will get to work." He hangs up the phone and begins to talk with the other guy again. "We have to get more of that gas." "Where did it come from?" "Not where, who. Dr. Jonathan Crane is the only one who knows how to make the gas." "So where is this guy?" "Arkham." "The Bat put him there?" "No, this guy came around before he was even in town. This guy was taken in without a fight. He did manage to kill five cops because of one of his gases. When they went to attack, he surrendered." "You were working with him?" "The boss assigned him to me. He belongs where he is." "How are we going to get him?" Camera zooms in on the main thug.
I would really like some comments on the story. Do you like how things are turning up? What are you hoping happens next? What other villains do you want to see? What should I name the thugs? Feedback is what helps inspire me.
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Post by jasontodd2 on Sept 10, 2005 5:51:31 GMT -5
I would have definately gone with the dark tone with a 5th installment, perhaps have Dick Grayson have a quick cameo in the film going off to college, I wouldn't even mention Barbara Pennyworth (what a horrible casting choice and idea) Then you could have Batman and Alfred's relationship explored a bit more than the previous four films that really didn't dig into there friendship/family bond. I would have made the film more of a Horror/Sci-Fi type of style using Killer Croc, and The Man Bat as the main villians, and throw in the Film Freak as a minor villian, introducing Harvey Bullock and Renee Montoya as the investingating detectives trying to bring down The Film Freak and have them have there first meeting/run in with Batman, who helps them out, and of course Harvey want's to bring down the Batman, but first he would have spilled his coffee all over himself and dropped his slice of pizza.
I would go back to the basics with the Batsuit as well, dump the armor look and feel of it and go more with a Batman Dead End inspired costume, and definately go with a BLACK utility belt!
Some of the film would be set in the Swamp/backwoods where you could introduce a new type of batvehicle, a small version of a Batboat. Who knows you could even have Swamp Thing make a cameo as he and Bats come face to face for the first time.
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