Bat-Gripes?

[the demon's head]

So since we're all on this board it's safe to assume that we are all huge Batman fans. it's not a perfect world and I was wondering what problems or gripes you have with the many different incarnations of Batman, comics, tv, cartoons, toys, movies. i didn't know where to post this thread but seeing as though Batman has his roots in comic books, this seemed liked the safest bet.
Here are some of mine, I'm sure I'll have more but I get tired of typing after a paragraph or two.
1) Isn't Batman supposed to be an urban legend in Gotham? Keep him that way. We shouldn't see pictures of Batman except blurry photos in the shadows (like the loch ness monster!)
2) Batman shouldn't come out during the day. Bats are nocturnal creatures. I reread Year One the other day and Bruce had a line in there about Batman only being out between the hours of midnight and 4am. I had also read the No Man's Land novel that came out a few years back (great read by the way if you don't feel like reading anything heavy) But I remember there being internal dialogue of Batman's saying that it was strange being out during the daytime but since NML it was kind of necessary.
3) When Bruce isn't acting like the millionaire playboy, i.e. The New Batman Adventures Bruce Wayne being all serious and stoic.
4) Batman in the context of the DCU. Sure it's great, but when you really think about it, the fact of a guy in a costume running around a city at night is pretty neat. But then you throw in some guys who can move tanks just by blinking and it kind of ruins it in a way. Not completely but sorta.
5) The oval in the bat symbol.
6) The 60's TV show. Just because it tainted the minds of a few generations of people. I enjoy the show for what it is but man, it was the template for those terrible Schumacher movies.

I'll have more... I just can't think of anymore....

[PPAIN aka Michael]

[glow=purple,2,300]Yeah, don't get me wrong, I love Batman, but I've got a few gripes myself:

1)The fact that the '89 movie put it into the general public's head that the Joker killed the Waynes.
2)The yellow oval.
3)The 1960s TV show; did more harm to the general public's preception of the Batman comics than good.
4)WAY TOO MANY PEOPLE IN THE DCU KNOW THAT BATS AND BRUCE WAYNE ARE THE SAME GUY.
5)Two words:Stephanie Brown.
6)Jim Gordon hasn't been the Commish for a long time.
7)Ledgends of the Dark Knight's piss-poor stories.
8)The lack of Chuck Dixon on the Bat-team.
9)The Joker: Last Laugh storyline (good lord was that horrible!)
10)The Tim Drake Robin really should be more dangerous than he is. I mean, jeez, he's trained with Batman for years; shouldn't he be a little more...I don't know..."harder"? [/glow]

[the demon's head]

Oh Spoiler is a good one. I'm also not a big fan of the Huntress. I think if the Bat Family consisted of only Batman, Robiin, Nightwing, Oracle and maybe Cassie, I'd be more than happy... but then again when you think about it, the concept of Batman really seems to work better when it's just him and Alfred. Not that I don't like Nightwing or Robin or Oracle but y'know...

The lack of Gordon is a major beef of mine too. Batman without Gordon is almost like Batman without Alfred.

And really I'm not sure how I feel about Hush.

And yes too too many people know that Bats and Bruce are the same person.

[re]

I agree with everything you guys just said.

[/\/\att]

[shadow=green,left,300]I agree with SOME of what was said....but I have to defend the 60s show. The show is what made Batman a pop culture icon. How many people involved in the franchise today became fans due to the show? There would be no BTAS if not for the 60s show. It was a necessary phase of Batman's evolution. It was a different time...back then it was ok to have it cheesy...now we like it more serious. Now, with that being said, there's NO excuse for the Schumacher films! I understand that he was trying to re-create the old Bat-magic...but it didn't work! Times have changed..and its THOSE FILMS that have done Batman more harm than good. Hopefully Begins will begin to heal some of that damage.

My major complaint about Batman in general is the lack of fan involvement. There are a number of other fan friendly franchises that include the fans and their wants more than DC does with Batman. I'd love to see us have more say in what happens. WE are the ones reading the comics and watching the shows, after all![/shadow]

[PPAIN aka Michael]

[glow=purple,2,300]Yeah, that's something I've gotta agree with you on Matt; the severe lack of fan involvement in the Batman toy franchise. Although, I have to admit, things have improved...with the trivia contest and case ratios for instance...but it wouldn't hurt for Mattel to listen to the fans much more and have a Collector's Club for us.

[/glow]

[Darknight]

Is the gripe about the oval in the Batsymbol it's existance or the lack of oval in recent years?

It was originally there so DC could copyright it.

I really like Frank Miller's explanation in Dark Knight Returns. It is there to be a target because Batman can't shield his head as well as he can his chest, so the yellow is to make gunmen aim there.

[Knightwing]

Stop changing his logo. please in all media just STOP!!
I didn't mind it when it was altered slightly but The Batman cartoon butchered it by adding extra points. And why did the '89 film have it plastered everywhere as it is in the comics when it came to merch but in the film it looked weird.

Also this extensive batfamily is rediculous.
and my new gripe is that NO ONE knows that the new film is a restart and i have a bad feeling it will be marketed as a prequel too, not official press but by the media and people who wouldn't usually know better. Using fresh villians doesn't really help the case i'm just going on....

[Det27]

The Burton movies helped restore the image of Batman as a dark character in the general public's mind just as Frank Miller cemented what Dennis O'Neal and Neal Adams had been doing for a devade prior in the comics. I like the darker version and I like the 60's show as well. Burton made BTAS possible and put Batman back on the map.

Shumacher is the worst thing to happen to Batman, ever

Presently, over saturation in the comics of late has made the comics suffer. They should be pared down with quality over quantity. Harley Quinn I think has diluted some of the menace of the Joker as a lone nut.

I'm very weary of the "making Batman hip and young" approach that the new cartoon seems to be going for. The bad slang used by Bruce Wayne in the comic preview for one. The Joker has looked the same since 1940, basically. Batman Beyond at least had a good premise for playing around with things as it was in the future. I don't know why the characters needed to be "updated." And then the "batwave" and variant suits beeing used make it seem like it might be a big toy commercial like the 80's He-man and Transformer's cartoons.
But I'll wait and see.

Batman Begins seems to be going, as some one else said on this board, in too opposite the direction of the Shumacher movies and possibly sacrificing some of the fun of the characters in the process. Burton's Batman was more comic accurate in costume(capsule belt, yellow oval, Adams style cowl) as was his Joker (purple suit, green hair, white face). I would have liked to see the Bale costume black and grey because now it's too close to Kilmer's suit from the end of Forever. But I'm a fan of Goyer so I'll decide when I see it.

[PPAIN aka Michael]

Det27 said:

I'm very weary of the "making Batman hip and young" approach that the new cartoon seems to be going for. The bad slang used by Bruce Wayne in the comic preview for one. The Joker has looked the same since 1940, basically. Batman Beyond at least had a good premise for playing around with things as it was in the future. I don't know why the characters needed to be "updated." And then the "batwave" and variant suits beeing used make it seem like it might be a big toy commercial like the 80's He-man and Transformer's cartoons.
But I'll wait and see.

[glow=purple,2,300]Yeah, that was somthing that irks me a little with the whole The Batman. All I hope for is that the whole batwave feature doesn't take over the show, and the writing doesn't go down the tubes.

[/glow]

[the demon's head]

Or the extremely terrible Nightwing costumes from the 80's (shudder)

and ppain is right, Last Laugh was horrendous. Oh boy Nightwing killed the Joker but then gave him CPR. wow <--- that's sarcastic

I think that's all I really have left I'm going to make a new thread because this one makes me angry.

[J-Man]

[shadow=purple,left,300]Ah, gripes:

1) Bane in "Batman and Robin"
2) Batgirl in "Batman and Robin"
3) The Batsuit in "Batman and Robin"
4) The Batmobile and other vehicles in "Batman and Robin"
5) Joel Schumacher was allowed to direct "Batman and Robin"
6) They cast Ah-nold as Freeze in "Batman and Robin"

Basically, I love "Batman." Period. Except for those I listed above.[/shadow]

[PPAIN aka Michael]

the said:

Or the extremely terrible Nightwing costumes from the 80's (shudder)

[glow=PURPLE ,2,300]Oh, how terrible were those costumes! Especially the one with the huge plunging neck line and collar ! *shutter *[/glow]

[JokersGalPal]

Det27 said:

Batman Begins seems to be going, as some one else said on this board, in too opposite the direction of the Shumacher movies and possibly sacrificing some of the fun of the characters in the process. Burton's Batman was more comic accurate in costume(capsule belt, yellow oval, Adams style cowl) as was his Joker (purple suit, green hair, white face). I would have liked to see the Bale costume black and grey because now it's too close to Kilmer's suit from the end of Forever. But I'm a fan of Goyer so I'll decide when I see it.

[shadow=purple,left,300]*sigh*
Can't please anyone...

Oh well.

Sacraficing some of the fun of the characters...
hmmm...ok.[/shadow]

[shadow=blue,left,300]As for my gripes...well everyone's basically mentioned them...[/shadow]

[Det27]

Jizayne said:

Sacraficing some of the fun of the characters...
hmmm...ok.[/shadow]

[/color]

[/quote]

The horrid Hulk movie completely sacrificed the feel of a comic and just became a horrible film in itself for how serious and pretentious it became. I don't think this will happen to Batman Begins to that extent. But it can be a problem. It's the Timothy Dalton James Bonds to the Sean Connery's. The reason no one remebers Dalton's.

Lots of people whine about the Keaton movies. The first one is next to perfect for me. It's just personal opinion.
There are as many versions of Batman as there are users on this board. Some even like the Shumacher movies in all of their neon and nipple glory.

[Robin]

Batman is supposed to be an urban legend to scare criminals and make kids go inside before dark. They don't seem to do that anymore.

Tim Drake is the best Robin and they should show Batman and him do more dynamic duo work together.

Theres too many people in the bat-family.

And theres a lack of Chuck Dixon.
Thats about it for me.

[PPAIN aka Michael]

[glow=purple,2,300]DC needs to bring back the Grant Morrison uber Batman to the JLA. Y'know, the time when Batman was the most powerful member. [/glow]

[Det27]

Grant Morrison is doing JLA again in JL Classified

[anthonywayne]

My gripe branches out to many comics and goes back over ten years - I am tired of these revenge-crazed bad guys with so much "intel" on Batman's life bringing the fight to him - Bane, Hush...who's next? Oh, right - the mastermind behind "Wargames". Look, Batman is supposed to go out, find crime, beat the tar out of it, and disappear. No one should know or be able to figure out who he is, and he should be regarded solely as an urban legend. I understand the need for good stories, but this is getting out of hand. I can't wait until the next crisis or zero hour so the DCU can start over and we can wipe the slate clean for Batman.

[PPAIN aka Michael]

anthonywayne said:

My gripe branches out to many comics and goes back over ten years - I am tired of these revenge-crazed bad guys with so much "intel" on Batman's life bringing the fight to him - Bane, Hush...who's next? Oh, right - the mastermind behind "Wargames". Look, Batman is supposed to go out, find crime, beat the tar out of it, and disappear. No one should know or be able to figure out who he is, and he should be regarded solely as an urban legend. I understand the need for good stories, but this is getting out of hand. I can't wait until the next crisis or zero hour so the DCU can start over and we can wipe the slate clean for Batman.

[glow=purple,2,300]Or, he could do what the Flash did. He asked the Specture to erase the memory of all the people around the world of his identity and the fact that Barry was the first Flash. Bats could make all the people who know his identity (and believe me there is huge number of heroes/villans) forget, and make him have an actual secret identity. [/glow]

[anthonywayne]

PPAIN said:

[glow=purple,2,300]Or, he could do what the Flash did. He asked the Specture to erase the memory of all the people around the world of his identity and the fact that Barry was the first Flash. Bats could make all the people who know his identity (and believe me there is huge number of heroes/villans) forget, and make him have an actual secret identity. [/glow]

Yes, he could do that - but those kinds of issues get a little hairy when it comes to Batman. He could have asked for help from the other heroes of the DCU when Bane broke the all the inmates out of Arkham, or during NML, but it's just not his style.

[Det27]

Or the newest issue of Identity Crisis actually addresses this problem and makes it so writers can just throw out any story threads of people knowing Batman's ID.

[ICECREAMAN]

1. Everything from Batman and Robin, especially that Bane was a mindless brute instead of an intelligent madman.
2. The fact that I can't find a 1/18th or 1/24th scale batmobile from the '60's TV show.
3. The fact that Batman in the movies is bulletproof. He should wear a costume similiar to the comics and the fanfilm Batman: Dead End.

[reideen1313]

ICEMAN said:

2. The fact that I can't find a 1/18th or 1/24th scale batmobile from the '60's TV show.

I agree - however, it's tied up in so many other deals - Fox did the show, WB now owns DC and ol' Bats, Barris (isn't that how you spell his name?) owns some part of the Batmobile from the show, since he designed it, etc, etc. I don't see that ever happening. The best way to get around it is to customize one of the Polar Lights models to look like the TV version.

ICEMAN said:

3. The fact that Batman in the movies is bulletproof. He should wear a costume similiar to the comics and the fanfilm Batman: Dead End.

Actually, I like this. It makes sense. With the technology available today, a kevlar suit is logical. I've said it before - I prefer my Batman in the blue and grey suit - but in the movies, the black, bulletproof outfit makes sense. I hope that we will see some explaination of the suit in the upcoming movie.

Overall, my biggest beef is what others here have said. Too many people, in both comics and in the movies, know who Batman is. Maybe the best thing to do comic-wise, would be to have Bruce stop being Batman for a while. Don't tell the fans who is behind the mask. Make 'em guess - this could be tied into the comic as well. There obviously would be differences, and those close to Batman (ie Gordon, Catwoman, Huntress) would notice (like they did in Knightfall), yet they would not know who it was either. Eventually, it could be revealed that Bruce was still Batman, he just decided, like we have, that too many people know his secret.

[PPAIN aka Michael]

reideen1313 said:

I agree - however, it's tied up in so many other deals - Fox did the show, WB now owns DC and ol' Bats, Barris (isn't that how you spell his name?) owns some part of the Batmobile from the show, since he designed it, etc, etc. I don't see that ever happening. The best way to get around it is to customize one of the Polar Lights models to look like the TV version.

[glow=purple,2,300]Yeah, the guy's name is George Barris and so far the only memorbilia (sp?) of the old 60's Batmobile is a t-shirt that he put out though his clothing company.

Here's a pick of his new Batmobile tee; I've got a different version though. I'll post a pic if you want.
[/glow]

[reideen1313]

Actually, there's lots of stuff out there - it's just not officially licensed. Take this couch for example....

[Robin]

That couch is amazing!

[JokersGalPal]

Robin said:

That couch is amazing!

[shadow=purple,left,300]you said it [/shadow]

[PPAIN aka Michael]

[glow=purple,2,300]That couch would look great in my room! [/glow]

[Flamebird]

Batman and robin - Worst film ever - who was in charge of Casting?

i agree with the fact taht to many people know his idenity its stupid