Countdown 2005... UPDATED - SEE THE PIC INSIDE

[reideen1313]

Det27 said:

Lex Luthor.

After looking at Lee's unpainted pencils, I think you might just have something there....

Det27 said:

Nightwing has a popular ongoing book. It's not him

Sorry, but you're way off base here. If it is Nightwing, DC won't be losing anything really - original Robin or not. Another character has assumed the identity of Robin and to the general public, nothing has changed with the character except he started wearing long pants and lost the elf booties. DC can take chances with a character like Nightwing, who isn't stamped into the general public's mindset of the Batman supporting characters. This isn't like killing Superman or breaking Batman - those characters are icons - any change to those characters is going to be news. remember Superman Red and Superman Blue? That was covered by Time magazine. Do you think that Nightwing dying would really get any major news outlet's attention? No. DC has a relatively clean slate to play with on the character, regardless of his origin.

Det27 said:

-The Flash has a popular ongoing book, there's one Flash on that cover,editors said Barry wont be back (at least until current team's contracts expire, new editors come in, sales dip, and want some big event to attract silver age readers, though there's no big demand among Flash fans. Wally is a sidekick from the late 50's, well fleshed out, and well liked. Not controvertial like Kyle) Didio said it wasn't going to happen, and there's no H.E.A.T. for Barry.

Agreed. I don't think that it's either Wally or Barry. The Flash is a little different from Nightwing, because, to the general public, it's the same character. Same suit, right? They really couldn't bump off Wally.

Det27 said:

-Blue Beetle, who would really care? An inactive, 3rd tier hero's death doesn't have crisis-level aftershocks unless it's an ID Crisis rehash. I like him, but it's not earthshattering.

Not earthshattering, no. But I'd care. Keith Giffen would care. I'm sure we aren't alone.

Det27 said:

-Jason Todd - Died once already, has nothing to do with JLA and nothing to do with books leading into this event (ID Crisis, Flash, Superman/Batman, JSA, Teen Titans). He is resurrected to die again? Speaking of Titans, Luthor is involved there too. Someone tipped Superboy off that half of his genes are from Luthor.

I don't think it's Jason. There's another way that I think they'll take the mystery of Jason's body.....

Det27 said:

-Adam Strange- Who would care?

Again, I'd care. I've enjoyed this character since my first issue of Showcase, and ever since. Not all the stories were excellent, but he's DC's Indianna Jones, Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon rolled up into one. I've really been enjoying the current series - both the writing and art are excellent and I hope that the numbers on the book are good enough to warrant an ongoing series.

[reideen1313]

Just found this interview with Winick on "Countdown"

www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=4538

I found this quote interesting:

Sources tell CBR News that numerous titles already in publication play in to the events of DC Countdown. "Adam Strange," "Teen Titans," "JSA" were three of the books mentioned where current and future storylines lead in to "DC Countdown."

I think I've mentioned Titans 17 and 18 and the excellent Adam Strange series before....

Don't say I didn't warn you. ;D

[Det27]

Have there been any Luthor mentions in Adam Strange, Reindeen? I would pick it up but am at my limit for books (like 25 or so, dropped Robin and Batgirl for Green Lantern and Green Arrow)

That article you posted actually strengthen's my belief it's Luthor. He talks about no one knowing Sue Dibny, but says "Anyone, ANYONE, can pick this up" referring to the impact of the character, Luthor, Joker, Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, Perry White, and Alfred are the only characters not featured I'd put in that category. Dick Grayson as Nightwing is not known by everyone. How many Robin's can they kill, anyhow? Unless it's not the final cover, too buff for Joker, Jimmy, and Alfred, not a woman, too thin for Perry. That leaves Luthor, 65 year old arch-villain to the first superhero featured in cartoons, movies, tv, games, comics, newsstrips, etc. Your Grandparents probably know him from newstrips, 20-40 somethings know him from Gene Hackman/Superfriends, Teens-20s know him from Smallville, kids know him from Justice League.

Nightwing's a book over 100 issues that's consistently in the top 100 sellers. They'd knock off Oracle, Huntress, Black Canary, Cassandra Cain, Or Tim Drake first. Dick Grayson would produce another H.E.A.T. situation amongst comic fans as the chracter predates 98% of characters published today. It would also only have a huge impact on a smaller number of characters: Batman mostly, Titans, Outsiders, Birds of Prey, Wally West. But the rest of the JLA and other heroes have had similar losses(Donna Troy) that haven't led to anything cataclysmic.

And the character in the painting, unless it's a ringer, is bald or has a hood on.

I think Adam Strange is cool. But a majority of people don't even know who he is. He's like a red shirt on Star Trek to most people. It worked with Sue Dibny, but they can't just start killing every side character in the DCu to drive stories now.

The only kink in the Luthor theory is that if they are saying he really is dead and not faking it, no one will belive he will stay dead. He's died before and is the most widely known comic villain next to the Joker. Sue Dibny will most likely stay dead. Barry Allen could stay dead as the costume and powers are almost the same, his succesor was created not long after him and was his sidekick, and is well fleshed out. Ra's Al Ghul will not stay dead, if not just for market synergy (see Aquaman).

[ThatBlockoGuy]

It's Ambush Bug.

[Arkham16]

[glow=red,2,300]When i first saw the pic i thought catwoman until i began to look closer. When i zoomed in on the pencil drawing it didn't look like the body had goggles but the painting does. When zooming in on the painting i noticed that i could see an ouline of the mask and IMO it looked very close to that (But why kill off BB he isn't exactly the money maker as some others?)

The theory that it was Luther is good but luther is more buffed up in Lee's previous drawings compared to the pic of countdown. Maybe Luther kills BB and that's why everyone looks p****d off. And about all the Luther references in other books: Winick says "Anyone, ANYONE, can pick this up" would make you believe it would be a HUGE, HUGE character but all the Luther references could be a very large red herring. Though the Luther theory is very logical & he is mentioned in most the stories.

p.s. after Teen Titans was mentioned it made me remember something completely off topic. in issue 1 of the current series, Conner goes to school and he sees three kids resembling Smallville's Clark, Chloe, Pete. Later in the issue when they fight Jericho in Deathstroke's body in San Francisco you see a car in the background that looks like the car from Starsky and Hutch( p.m. me if anyone knows a reason to this please)[/glow]

[jlavaia]

here's something i dont think that anyone's mentioned, after looking closely, it might not be a mask, but a mustache. also the only ones looking truly shocked and hurt aside from batman are superman and Wonder Woman.

maybe its Alfred. that would definetely hit hard, but Alfred has always been associated with batman, especially to the general public. ask anyone who doesn't read comics who's batman's butler, and they'll say alfred. it could be him or even Gordan. we'll know soon enough.

[JotaEse]

March isn't soon enough-I'm not one for delayed gratification!!!

[Arkham16]

[glow=red,2,300]Ya know i picked up Identity Crisis7 and boy was it good. I was thinkin' afterwards that the person that bats is holdin' could be the atom. [/glow]

highlight for possible spoiler: The atom is missing at the end of the issue

[glow=red,2,300]So maybe after events of IC something happens to atom and that might be why everyone looks p****d off. Read IC series to know what role atom plays in story. Though i hope i'm wrong 'cause i personally like the atom. Back on my last post i mentioned that i saw a line on the face like a mask and i thing the musculature looks too masculine to be a girl. Dunno' guess we'll find out eventually. Only time will tell.[/glow]

[Ralph Nigma]

If they kill Alfred I may cry.

I also may never read a comic book again.

It is also not outside the realm of possibility that I may eat a sandwich.

[reideen1313]

Ralph said:

If they kill Alfred I may cry.

I also may never read a comic book again.

It is also not outside the realm of possibility that I may eat a sandwich.

Although not necessarily in that order?

I agree - Alfred is too major of a character to be killed at this point. He lives until the end of DKR, so I'm sure this event won't be the end of him. ;D

[ThatBlockoGuy]

Let me throw out a possible Countdown scenario:

ID Crisis ends and the common belief is that someone
or something can control the DCU characters. Then there's the repeated mention of eye coloring including Luthor's eyes glowing green at the end of the recent Supes/Bats storyline. Okay, now skip to rebirth and the forshadowing of the return of Parallax.

Here's a theory (agree, disagree, ignore-I just wanted to try it out) What if Parallax wasn't actually Hal but rather was an entity onto itself (like the Phoenix in the old X Men) who possessed Jordan and was forced to separate from him upon his death, this entity plays on a person's secret desires and frees up their "id" so that any price justifies the desired outcome (ex: Jean wanting Ray back in ID Crisis and the lengths to which she went). Now it's back and we've only seen the first act. Major crossovers at DC are done on a cosmic scale-what if the heroes couldn't trust anyone (Bat's will really be in his element). At the very least this would cleanse Hal's image.

[Ender]

wow... this is getting me excited for this arc! i noticed the part in Teen Tians where it says about a "crisis", so decided to give the names of EVERY character who is dead 10 years into the future, for those who don't read the book or are too lazy to look it up:

BRUCE WAYNE -Beloved Husband
ALFRED PENNYWORTH
HARVEY DENT
OSWALD COBBLEPOT
TOMMY ELLIOT
JONATHAN CRANE
EDWARD NYGMA JR. (WTF?!)
THE JOKER
DUELA DENT (Joker's daughter, although killed by Tim)
BETTE KANE (?!)
CARRIE KELLY
IBU AL XU'FEASCH (?!)
WAYLON JONES
DR. KIRK LANGSTROM
SELENA KYLE- Beloved Wife
HELENA BERTINELLI

If i'm not mistaken, that's a crap load of dead guys! some of them i don't even know, hence the question marks beside their names. However, it says Tim (now Batman) killed them all, or most of them. Tim's exact words are: "So many heroes fell during it all... during the CRISIS".
okay, if something big is going to happen, which i can tell will, it better be done right. remember when sarah essen was killed? that meant something. it wasn't earth shattering, the JLA didn't go to her funeral... but it meant something. If anyone on that list above is killed, it better be done well (and that includes Alfred). and tim says that heroes fell, and on that list, there are few heroes. anyways, maybe this will get the gears turning... or maybe you've waisted several moments of your life reading this post. either way, i can't wait til march!

[BlackBat]

I actually had a question about this since I just started reading Titans with this story arc. Why is Duela Dent Harvey's daughter, but looks like Joker? Anyone?

~Tim

[Ender]

she even says it that she's joker's daughter, but i was wondering why her last name was dent as well

[reideen1313]

That makes 3 of us. Since she's dead, I doubt we'll find out though.

[BlackBat]

Ah...after doing a little net-snooping I found out this history on the Duela Dent character. It's obivous that we've missed out by not reading Teen Titans over the years. Check this out:

www.titanstower.com/source/whoswho/duela.html

~Tim

[reideen1313]

Interesting....thanks for digging that up Tim!

[reideen1313]

NEW Rumors!

Apparently Countdown leads into DC's major summer event, Crisis on Earth. The basic plot is that someone wants their Earth (Earth X) restored the way they remember it. The twist is that the protagonist is based on our Earth, and in our time.

"It's a place and time called Prime Time.

"20 years ago, post Crisis, the protagonist was integrated into our time and space, and has been reading comics but slowly becoming aware they were out of place and time. After reading Identity Crisis, something contained within leads to this person realising that, and they want to correct matters.

"Supposedly DC Countdown leads to the moment of awareness, and the reboot of the DCU is their point of view focused upon the heroes and how this person wants to see the DCU. For a few months, significant changes will be made to the DCU, destroying the concepts that most people believed in, but they won't be long lasting.

"Seven Soldiers is supposedly the 'real' DCU universe as we see it, and events contained within that will lead to the formation of a group that knows what is wrong with the DCU, and ultimately how to fix it.

"This forms the basis of the hypertime idea, allowing multiverses and multitimelines to coexist after the event, and Seven Soldiers will suggest the awareness of the DCU that Grant Morrison wanted before as events in SS will drop hints to the characters within about their role and how to fix the brokenness."

Now I've been told that there's a lot wrong here, the timeline doesn't work out so well and things are horribly mixed up. And "Prime Time" is not the title. But that might mean there's a gem of correctness in here... somewhere...

Thanks as usual to Rich Johnson's excellent column, Lying in the Gutters.

www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=litg

[Batlaw]

Thanks for posting that Reid.. but I gotta admit I'm confussed lol

[BlackBat]

Not a problem reideen. It was bugging me ;D

~Tim

[reideen1313]

batlaw said:

Thanks for posting that Reid.. but I gotta admit I'm confussed lol

I was too Batlaw - but I just got done with JLA #109 - I can see the groundwork being laid for some kind of 'Multiple Earths' type of thing happening. I think that this part:

Supposedly DC Countdown leads to the moment of awareness, and the reboot of the DCU is their point of view focused upon the heroes and how this person wants to see the DCU. For a few months, significant changes will be made to the DCU, destroying the concepts that most people believed in, but they won't be long lasting.

and this part:

This forms the basis of the hypertime idea, allowing multiverses and multitimelines to coexist after the event, and Seven Soldiers will suggest the awareness of the DCU that Grant Morrison wanted before as events in SS will drop hints to the characters within about their role and how to fix the brokenness

are correct. The rest I think is just fluff. That's my guess so far anyway! ;D

[Josh]

[glow=blue,2,300]Riiiiiiiiggggggggggggghhhhhhhhtttt.

<- Still lost.[/glow]

[reideen1313]

Josh said:

[glow=blue,2,300]Riiiiiiiiggggggggggggghhhhhhhhtttt.

<- Still lost.[/glow]

LOL! Just sit back and enjoy the ride then! ;D

[ThatBlockoGuy]

Just make fix now! *sigh*.

[reideen1313]

Apparently, there are some rumors about Blue Beetle's role in the DCU over the next year, in the current issue of Wizard:

in the latest Wizard Magazine Dan Didio stated that Blue Beetle in 2005 will be integral to everything that's going on in the DCU. He will be a source of controversy for the fans and a catalyst for all the big events.

Take that for what you will.

[ThatBlockoGuy]

Let's talk symmetry for a sec. If I remember correctly BB was one of the 1st, if not the 1st, non DC characters (DC had just acquired the Charlton stable) to appear in the 80s Crisis. Makes sense that if things are about to change he'd be the 1st to die. The Question and Captain Atom have both integrated well into both the animated and comicbook DCU but as much as I like BB he has been used mostly as comic relief along with Booster Gold.

[reideen1313]

ThatBlockoGuy said:

Let's talk symmetry for a sec. If I remember correctly BB was one of the 1st, if not the 1st, non DC characters (DC had just acquired the Charlton stable) to appear in the 80s Crisis. Makes sense that if things are about to change he'd be the 1st to die. The Question and Captain Atom have both integrated well into both the animated and comicbook DCU but as much as I like BB he has been used mostly as comic relief along with Booster Gold.

You are correct. The Charlton characters inhabited (pre-crisis) Earth 4. Their heroes (that survived Crisis) consisted of Blue Beetle, Captain Atom, Judomaster, Peacemaker, The Question, Nightshade and Peter Cannon - Thunderbolt. There were other, lesser known characters that were killed off in Crisis.

Unfortunately, Killjoy and E-man were creator owned and didn't come over to DC in the purchase. (Both Killjoy and Eman are awesome characters - if you can track down any of their books, I highly recommend it!!)

There are some interesting pics and info about the original Charlton incarnations of these characters available here:

www.internationalhero.co.uk/c/charlton.htm

[ThatBlockoGuy]

I used to read E-Man (loved Joe Staton's art) and I have seen a Killjoy story or two. Both were interesting concepts.

[hitman04]

sounds interesting, eventhough i don't like the multiple earths thing

[hitman04]

400 posts!!!woooooo