Batman out of the JL

[Batdan]

So let me ask you all: Does Batman belong in the Justice League or any hero group for that matter?

Personally, I think the best Batman stories are when he remains in his own Batverse.

I'd like your thoughts on this.

[JokersGalPal]

[shadow=purple,left,300]Even in a group, he's an obvious loner. He's still researching his teammates, he knows everyones weakness, etc.

His whole Bat-family makes me sick sometimes, because I enjoy Batman issues/stories that have...BATMAN alone[/shadow]

[Batdan]

Music to my ears, Jayne. Music to my ears.

I've long felt that Batman is at his most effective as a character when he exists in a world where there are few if any other heroes. Allows you to suspend your disbelief just enough to buy in. Having him walk around some space station on the lookout for invading aliens is just wrong to me.

What do the rest of you think?

[JotaEse]

I like Batman in the JLA. He is the smartest member.He is the problem solver, when no one can figure it out. Queen of Fables was an excellent example, when the JLA is confused for three issues, and then Batman walks in with a piece of paper with the solution.

Also, as he said to GA in the first JLU: "Those monsters you won't fight, they have a habit of trampling the little people you are worried about" Good good point, and why Batman does it!

[Batboy]

Batdan said:

Music to my ears, Jayne. Music to my ears.

I've long felt that Batman is at his most effective as a character when he exists in a world where there are few if any other heroes. Allows you to suspend your disbelief just enough to buy in. Having him walk around some space station on the lookout for invading aliens is just wrong to me.

What do the rest of you think?

I totally agree, Batman doesn't fight aliens in space, or in different galaxies, he doesn't fly or have super strength or have a power ring or bore into peoples minds. He is just too out of place.

[/\/\att]

[shadow=green,left,300]Batman never really has been an active member. He's always kind of on reserve..he'll work with them when needed....but he's not exactly a team player...he's a leader.[/shadow]

[HUSH]

Batman doesn't belong on any teams, IMO, He is a loner. Besides,the Justice League doesn't deserve to have Batman as a member now, not after those jerks mind-wiped him. I hope they suffer. ;D

[Batdan]

Interesting points all.

See, even as a part-time member, I don't think Batman fits in the League or any other organization.

DC believes that it needs Batman (and Superman) to make many of its titles viable regardless of whether it's good for the character. I don't think that has to be the case.

The Avengers don't need Spider-Man, right? And even more importantly, Spider-Man doesn't need them. Marvel has long recognized, I think, that Spider-Man is at his best when the creators stay true to his roots. Same should be true for Batman.

I just don't see Batman and Martian Manhunter in the same room.

[Severen]

All the things you guys seem to see as negatives as far as Batman in the justice league I see as positives, funnily enough, and adding character to his, uh, character. I like the fact that he doesn't fit in, I like that even in the group he's an outsider and doesn't really belong and is ill at ease in a team situation. I like the darker element and edge he often brings to things that the JL encounter, and the fact that he'd usually clearly rather be back in gotham anyhow.

Thats just me though.


Severen.

[Robin]

Batboy said:

I totally agree, Batman doesn't fight aliens in space, or in different galaxies, he doesn't fly or have super strength or have a power ring or bore into peoples minds. He is just too out of place.

Ya that makes me sick. Just stick to fighting crime, not fighting Jaba the Hut and all that crap.

[jasontodd2]

I am in total agreement with the extended Bat-Family. I hate it! I for one am glad that Stephanie aka The Spoiler is gone, and won't be returning. Now if they could only get rid of Robin and just have it be Batman on his own. With the occasional Nightwing appearence.

But the question at hand is whether on not Batman belongs in the Justice League?

I say on special circumstances. I don't like him involved with huge group missions, perhaps if he teamed with Green Arrow, Wonder Woman, or any team members in solo adventures or no more than a group of three it is alright. But other than that I don't like seeing him team up with the entire group.

[JokerFC]

im torn i liked batman in the JL but also like him alone.but tower of babel was excellent and raised the question of who really understood him and who didnt and also who was big enough to except the greater good his plans could have achieved and the on the flip side who wanted to throw their rattle out of the pram and cry because bats came up with sure fire way to beat them ignoring the bigger picture.aquaman is such a baby

[Batlaw]

Matts right, as far as I remember, Bats has never been a full time member of JLA at his own choice. Only a reserve member.
I too am slightly torn on the issue. On one hand (the obvious) Batman isnt "designed" to be a part of any team. But, I just plain love and enjoy his involvement in the League. At the same time I also hate when he is taken sooo far out of his element like alien worlds etc. To me it depends on it being used sparingly and how well its done. Like Cosmic Odyssey, gotta love stories where out of all the "Super Powered Heroes" in the galaxy, its a simple human that saves the universe!
Also, despite Bats being the ultimate "loner", he is also in the inteligence / information biz. You know, keep your friends close and your (potential) enemies closer!? I believe Bats would be willing to join their little "league", if for no other reason than to surplus intel and "ammo" etc. I favor Grant Morrison's portrayal of Bats as in the maiden issues of the JLA. In the shadows and keeping just as much of an eye on his "team mates" as on their enemies.

[JokerFC]

yeah i also liked the way he was watching them closely especially in American Dreams and in rock of ages when darkseid thought he had wiped out the league for the most part ,but ol bats had been masquerading as desaad for years you gotta love that

[atomjack]

I can't believe how many fans of the Batman don't like the Batman in so many things. "I hated War Games." "I hate Batman in the JLA," and the ever popular "I hated Hush."

I'm glad you all have your favorite little vision of Batman in your heads, but I'm sorry to say, that's not Batman! In whatever Bat-book you're reading, the Batman in the story is the only Batman that exists.

The only Batman story I won't enjoy is the one where he's transformed into Superman... forever. What a horrible thing that would be.

[JokersGalPal]

atomjack said:

I can't believe how many fans of the Batman don't like the Batman in so many things. "I hated War Games." "I hate Batman in the JLA," and the ever popular "I hated Hush."

I'm glad you all have your favorite little vision of Batman in your heads, but I'm sorry to say, that's not Batman! In whatever Bat-book you're reading, the Batman in the story is the only Batman that exists.

The only Batman story I won't enjoy is the one where he's transformed into Superman... forever. What a horrible thing that would be.

[shadow=blue,left,300]He's a fictional character and many see him in their own different light.

If you don't appreciate that, then why are you in a community Batman forum??[/shadow]

[reideen1313]

atomjack said:

I can't believe how many fans of the Batman don't like the Batman in so many things. "I hated War Games." "I hate Batman in the JLA," and the ever popular "I hated Hush."

Keep in mind, most of the "I hate" topics you mentioned were directed at the story - not the character.

War Games, by most accounts, should have been wrapped up in 2 or 3 issues - not 3 months worth, spreading thru all the Bat-books.

Batman in the JLA is...out of character most of the time. Batman is a loner and in the grand scheme of things, should not be part of the group most of the time.

Hush had an ending that left many people asking "Was that it?!" Now, there is a Hush part 2 planned, but with the rumors of Loeb going exclusive to Marvel, who knows when or if that will see the light of day.

atomjack said:

I'm glad you all have your favorite little vision of Batman in your heads, but I'm sorry to say, that's not Batman! In whatever Bat-book you're reading, the Batman in the story is the only Batman that exists.

Actually, no - the Batman in Detective is the same Batman as that appears in Gotham Knights, LODK or, Batman. This is true with really any titles he appears in, JLA, JLE, JLA Classified, BOP, Hitman, Sandman, etc, with the exceptions being an Elseworlds tale or (one of my fave books right now) The Batman Strikes.

[

atomjack said:

The only Batman story I won't enjoy is the one where he's transformed into Superman... forever. What a horrible thing that would be.

Actually, that's been done in an Elseworlds tale - it was pretty good BTW.

jayne said:

[shadow=blue,left,300]He's a fictional character and many see him in their own different light.

If you don't appreciate that, then why are you in a community Batman forum??[/shadow]

Probably because he wanted to express his opinion - something that I encourage - especially here in my forum.

[Batdan]

atomjack said:

I can't believe how many fans of the Batman don't like the Batman in so many things. "I hated War Games." "I hate Batman in the JLA," and the ever popular "I hated Hush."

I'm glad you all have your favorite little vision of Batman in your heads, but I'm sorry to say, that's not Batman! In whatever Bat-book you're reading, the Batman in the story is the only Batman that exists.

The only Batman story I won't enjoy is the one where he's transformed into Superman... forever. What a horrible thing that would be.

Well, first off atomjack, welcome to the forum.

But I think you miss the point when people give critiques of various incarnations of Batman.

Since 1939, Batman has been portrayed many different ways by many different creators in many different forms, giving rise to such bulletin boards as this one.

Naturally, people are going to have favorite ways in which Batman is delivered creatively. Just as naturally, they will dislike certain ways in which the character is presented.

I mean, I have a favorite baseball team but that doesn't mean I like every move they make, just because that's the team the owner and front office gave me. That team doesn't meet my standards, I stop watching as many games.

Debate is healthy.

[JokerFC]

great point about the baseball team analogy,and debate is healthy it lets us share our points of view and understand others

[JotaEse]

JotaEse said:

Also, as he said to GA in the first JLU: "Those monsters you won't fight, they have a habit of trampling the little people you are worried about" Good good point, and why Batman does it!

Again, I bring this up. Gotham comes first (see No Man's Land) but Batman knows he IS the best at what he does and is needed, or the little people he is tyring to protect will get hurt. Also, if he is not in the JLA he will miss out on info he needs.

I like the Morrison "The JLA are the Greek Gods, here's the breakdown" philosophy. The JLA are THE elite characters in DC Comics.

The Avengers with Wolverine....means another book I refuse to buy!

[Josh]

[glow=blue,2,300]I like Batman as being a member of the JLA, but only show up when they really need him.

But I do agree about the League being like the elite heroes.[/glow]

[zorro]

I remember Baman and the Outsiders #1, when the JLA were not allowed to intervene when Batman asked for help. Batman showed that he didn't need a government-based group to tell him how to do his work. So he quit the league, and went out on his own. Batman showed that he din't need to tied by red tape to be at his best, he can do his job w/o anybody stopping him.