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Post by JokerFC on Feb 1, 2005 10:20:31 GMT -5
 Ok who here believes the above to be true?I do because no other villian has scarred Batman(and Jim Gordon)quite like the Joker has,now if you agree say why, now if you disagree please go into detail if you think the Joker is only sitting in the Kings throne and doesnt own it, IMO he is the King of the rogues gallery and my fave bad guy of all time but im interested to hear what others think so shoot
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Post by anthonywayne on Feb 1, 2005 13:21:41 GMT -5
Okay, here's my two cents:
I don't think any of Batman's rogues gallery can be classified as number one - they can all be classified as either great, good, or not so good. For me, the top contenders would be Joker, Ras Al Ghul, and believe it or not, Scarecrow. Each one represents some polar opposite or perversion of what Batman represents. Batman uses fear as a weapon, as does Scarecrow. Batman has an extreme sense of honor and what is right and wrong, as does Ras. Batman is control, Joker is chaos. Everyone else is either a tragic story (Two-face) or a wanna-be (let's face it - all Bane really wanted was to be Batman). Please feel free to debate these points.
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Post by JokerFC on Feb 1, 2005 14:31:35 GMT -5
Okay, here's my two cents: I don't think any of Batman's rogues gallery can be classified as number one - they can all be classified as either great, good, or not so good. For me, the top contenders would be Joker, Ras Al Ghul, and believe it or not, Scarecrow. Each one represents some polar opposite or perversion of what Batman represents. Batman uses fear as a weapon, as does Scarecrow. Batman has an extreme sense of honor and what is right and wrong, as does Ras. Batman is control, Joker is chaos. Everyone else is either a tragic story (Two-face) or a wanna-be (let's face it - all Bane really wanted was to be Batman). Please feel free to debate these points. great post chief some excellent points included |
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Post by Longbowhunter on Feb 1, 2005 16:52:23 GMT -5
OK-I've got to say-when all is said and done,when the other rogues have fallen by the wayside,it all comes down to Batman and The Joker.The sheer psychological drama that exists between these two characters is unlike anything else in pop culture.Its almost operatic or mythic in nature.When you really look at the connection between these two characters it starts to get very disturbing and very interesting.Joker IS because Batman made him.Sure the Joker had "one bad day" but it was his encounter with Batman that pushed him over the edge and made him the monster he is today.And Batman knows it.Batman KNOWS he created the Joker and in some sick way,Bats knows that as long as the Joker is around,the existence of Batman is justified.Not only has Batman NOT killed the Joker after all these years,hes gone out of his way to save the Jokers life on numerous occasions...because on some level,he knows he needs him.Thats why I love Alan Moores "The Killing Joke" so much...as a story is shows just how crazy and connected both Batman and the Joker are.
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Post by JokerFC on Feb 1, 2005 21:10:15 GMT -5
well said Longbowhunter well said!!I always liked the scene at the end of Death In The Family when Bruce is sitting in the U.N. waiting and the Joker strides past but stops to look at him as if he knows him and Bruce is thinking does he know??maybe he does after all this time and I like to think on some level he does even if he did ,I doubt he would share it as it would be all his to lord over bats
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Post by HUSH on Feb 1, 2005 22:44:44 GMT -5
Well, I do indeed think Joker is Batman's greatest nemesis. But first, my list of contending villains are: Joker, and I'll explain why at the end, Two-Face, for he used to be Batman's friend, and thus Batman has some emotional battles with him, Scarecrow, because he and Batman both have the theme of fear, Catwoman, because she has the advantage that she can make him think she's on his side when she's against him, like possibly, but not necessarily, in Hush, and she's the only villain who can really trick Batman, Hush, because he's so similar to Batman in some ways, and, like with the Clayface-as-Jason Todd ploy, he has an ability to really get into Batman's head and emotions. However, no other has taken so much from Batman, caused him so much trouble and grief, or been around for so long and so much, as The Joker! So yes, he is Batman's archnemesis.  |
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Post by XeRAtOniN on Feb 2, 2005 0:08:51 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]for me, THE JOKER is BATMAN'S # 1 nemesis... its like yin-yang, batman is the epitome of order and justice while the joker is the epitome of chaos and destruction... [/glow]
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Post by gotham95 on Feb 2, 2005 0:33:29 GMT -5
[shadow=blue,left,300]Yes, in my mind Batman and the Joker will always be the others archnemesis.[/shadow]
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Severen
Legions of Gotham Police Officer
Do I Look Like I'm Joking?
Posts: 167
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Post by Severen on Feb 2, 2005 0:43:28 GMT -5
I agree with everything Longbowhunter said above, to me The Joker isn't just the ultimate bat villian, he's the ultimate villian full stop, and I can't think of one anywhere, in any medium, at any time who is a better or more perfectly realised and more potent creation. Not Professor Moriarty, not Darth Vader, not Sauron, nor Blofeld, nor even Dracula (though every single one of those are brilliant and iconic creations).
Sometimes he's poorly written, sometimes some writers don't seem to get the balance quite right between the insanity, the comedy and the pure dark menace of the character nailed down perfectly, focussing too much on one aspect at the expense of the others, but when he's done right, when he's done well to his full potential, no other character can touch him in my opinion, in the bat universe or beyond.
As has been said by others, to me he is very much the split side to Batman's own fractured personality, he has a truly symbiotic relationship that no other Batman villian has or shares to anywhere near the same degree or intensity with the Dark Knight, as was demonstrated perfectly in the brilliant Killing Joke.
At his best I find him endlessly fascinating, wildly entertaining, freakishly dangerous, darkly imposing, amazingly unpredictable, obsessively compelling and just down right scary. Pretty damn impressive credentials for any character to draw on really. And I honestly can't imagine any other character ever beating him as being my favourite, now or any time in the future.
Sev.
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Post by JokerFC on Feb 2, 2005 9:30:33 GMT -5
yeah he will always be my fave too,I dont think any other hero vs villian combo in comicdom has the sheer hatred for one another that they do.another classic Joker moment:when the Scarecrow sprays him with a big dose of fear toxin in Knightfall and he just laughs it off saying"What other flavors you got?"before he beats crows butt with a chair.that scene stunned me because it shows truly how insane he is when the fear gas had no effect at all
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Post by jasontodd2 on Feb 2, 2005 14:44:42 GMT -5
Sometimes he's poorly written, sometimes some writers don't seem to get the balance quite right between the insanity, the comedy and the pure dark menace of the character nailed down perfectly, focussing too much on one aspect at the expense of the others, but when he's done right, when he's done well to his full potential, no other character can touch him in my opinion, in the bat universe or beyond.
I totally agree with that statement right there. I think that before a writer starts his/her run on a Batman, Detective Comics, or wherever else the Joker may be appearing there should always be a sit down meeting with the "new" person who is writing The Joker, because you are so right, he has been poorly written in the past, and when he is he seems like a second rate villian that leaves you wondering, this is the guy that takes Batman to his limits? He killed Jason Todd? He shot and crippled Barbara Gordon? Are you serious.
We all know who and what The Joker is capable of doing, he is pure evil. But for new fans being introduced to the Joker it is important that he is portrayed the way we all know and love him as. |
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Post by Batdan on Feb 3, 2005 22:54:09 GMT -5
This isn't even a question. This is hands down the truth. All other villains follow the Joker.
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Post by jasontodd2 on Feb 4, 2005 0:06:23 GMT -5
Oh ya The Joker killed Sarah Essen/Gordon in No Man's Land. He is the best! Sick and Twisted.... Like Batdan just said all others villians follow!
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Post by Batdan on Feb 8, 2005 22:39:59 GMT -5
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Post by jasontodd2 on Feb 8, 2005 23:33:06 GMT -5
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