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Post by All Star Batman on Nov 27, 2005 14:59:35 GMT -5
I know we have an frustration thread and an appreciation thread, but I think a poll makes things easier. How do you feel about the All Star line?
I love it! Even thought the release date keeps changing, I'm still into it. And like I said before, this is NOT the same Batman you grew up with. It's a fresh and new start for the Dynamic Duo, with a darker feel to it.
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Post by vishman007 on Nov 27, 2005 15:18:39 GMT -5
I love it (but cant vote  ). The issues being pushed back is starting to make me lose my interest, but hopefully I'll be pumped up again by the time it does come out. |
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Post by HUSH on Nov 27, 2005 21:04:32 GMT -5
I love it! All-Star Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder is beautifully dark in tone and has excellent writing and art, IMO, and it's freakin' Frank Miller and Jim Lee! I had my doubts about it at first, but All-Star Supes is great, too. All-Star Superman is the classic Superman who has the will to act instead of moping around and being uninspirational like modern Supes. The writing and art are also excellent. I can't vote, as always, but count me as one who appreciates All-Star!  Oh, and the perpetually changing release dates are obnoxious, but certainly aren't turning me off of the stories themselves(although obsessing over the same 2 issues of Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder for 2 months does get kind of old ;D). |
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Blakeus125
Legions of Gotham Police Officer
Posts: 173
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Post by Blakeus125 on Nov 27, 2005 22:32:18 GMT -5
well i think that all-star batman will grow on me i guess i just had an image in my head of what it would be and when it was different than that i was dissapointed and i also have a problem with the super crazy batman but i think and hope that some things in it will change and it will grow on me so i guess im kinda undecided on wether i like it or not
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Post by /\/\att on Nov 27, 2005 22:32:28 GMT -5
I hate to go against the flow here guys...but I honestly hate this book. I wanted to like it, you see...I mean, it has such fanboy potential! Jim Lee and Frank Miller! I think I changed my shorts six times the day I heard the news......but lets be honest here...Miller has been slipping for a LONG time. Anyone here read DKR2? Wow. Thats all I can say there. Jim Lee's art can't save this completely off character title.
It reminds me of Batman Returns. Here's why: Tim Burton didn't want to do a sequel..WB mythered him into it...and it really shows...the film really shows a disdain for the Batman character...you hardly see him on screen, and when you do, he's killing (thats right, KILLING) people or acting like a jerk...and thats when you actually get to see him. Last I heard it was a Batman movie...not a Shrek Penguin Catwoman film. Anyhow - I use this example, because Miller's Batman is a giant prick. We all know that Bats can be moody...but this Batman is over the top ridiculous.
Bottom line - other than the bat-suit..I don't see much here to make me think its even a Batman story. Its a twisted, dark tale..and honestly, I've had enough of those to last me a lifetime. Its unoriginal and daft.
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Post by vishman007 on Nov 27, 2005 23:18:30 GMT -5
I think I changed my shorts six times the day I heard the news...... That could be serious, bro. You should have that checked out. |
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Post by /\/\att on Nov 27, 2005 23:19:11 GMT -5
I think I changed my shorts six times the day I heard the news...... That could be serious, bro. You should have that checked out. Yeah..I went to the doc, and he told me I have an accute case of fanboy-itis |
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Post by Batlaw on Nov 27, 2005 23:30:21 GMT -5
Whoa, dang near carbon copy of my thoughts as well Matt. Well put.
IMHO, while theres no denying his past contributions to our beloved hobby, Miller has become quite comfortable resting on his "name value" alone for some time now. In fact, I'll go so far as to say, while not entirely "hacked", he is, or is becoming somewhat of a "one trick pony"?
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Post by Batdan on Nov 28, 2005 19:57:09 GMT -5
I went with "hate it" because that was the only negative option, though I think "disappointed" is closer to the mark for me -- and this goes for both titles.
My thoughts:
1. Batman No. 1 was an OK outing, nothing special, nothing outrageous. I liked the art just fine, because, well, Jim Lee is a terrific artist.
2. Batman No. 2, on the other hand, was a moral outrage. This has nothing to do with whether I like Batman dark and gritty or not -- in fact, that's my preference. But dark and gritty does not equal child-abusing, schizoid, sociopath. This Batman not only has no grounding in the DCU, he has no grounding in the Millerverse.
3. Miller and Lee (though I like his artwork) do not pair well. The story tone doesn't match the artistic tone at all.
4. The scheduling is horrendous. So much was made early on about how this was supposed to be DC's effort to reach beyond hardcore fanboys and either draw in new fans or draw back those who had left the hobby. If memory serves me right (and I could be wrong), it went from monthly to every six weeks before it even debuted, then went to bimonthly and now beyond that. That's a terrible way to build readership.
5. Which brings me to Superman. I liked the first issue just fine. But then -- bam! -- again, it goes bimonthly.
6. I'll wager right now: This will be all we will see of the All-Star titles. Once Miller, Lee, Morrison and Quitely are done, the titles will go away and DC will call it a well-intentioned but ultimately failed experiment. They're so focused on IC and 52/OYL right now that I think that's where the action will be.
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Post by All Star Batman on Nov 28, 2005 20:51:24 GMT -5
I went with "hate it" because that was the only negative option, though I think "disappointed" is closer to the mark for me -- and this goes for both titles. My thoughts: 1. Batman No. 1 was an OK outing, nothing special, nothing outrageous. I liked the art just fine, because, well, Jim Lee is a terrific artist. 2. Batman No. 2, on the other hand, was a moral outrage. This has nothing to do with whether I like Batman dark and gritty or not -- in fact, that's my preference. But dark and gritty does not equal child-abusing, schizoid, sociopath. This Batman not only has no grounding in the DCU, he has no grounding in the Millerverse. 3. Miller and Lee (though I like his artwork) do not pair well. The story tone doesn't match the artistic tone at all. 4. The scheduling is horrendous. So much was made early on about how this was supposed to be DC's effort to reach beyond hardcore fanboys and either draw in new fans or draw back those who had left the hobby. If memory serves me right (and I could be wrong), it went from monthly to every six weeks before it even debuted, then went to bimonthly and now beyond that. That's a terrible way to build readership. 5. Which brings me to Superman. I liked the first issue just fine. But then -- bam! -- again, it goes bimonthly. 6. I'll wager right now: This will be all we will see of the All-Star titles. Once Miller, Lee, Morrison and Quitely are done, the titles will go away and DC will call it a well-intentioned but ultimately failed experiment. They're so focused on IC and 52/OYL right now that I think that's where the action will be. I'm done being Mr. Nice Guy. JUST GIVE IT SOME DAMN TIME! IN ISSUE 2, BATMAN WAS TRYING TO SCARE DICK TO NOT MAKE HIM GRIEVE! WE DON'T KNOW IF HE KILLED ANY OF THE COPS! MILLER AND LEE ARE A GREAT TEAM FOR THE TITLE! THEY'RE PROBABLY CHANGING THE SCHEDULE SO MUCH BECAUSE ALL OF YOU ARE GIVING NEGATIVE REVIEWS, SO MILLER HAS TO CHANGE THINGS! AND IF THE ALL STAR LINE GETS CANCELLED, I AM HOLDING ALL OF YOU NAY-SAYERS RESPONSIBLE, AND I WILL LEAVE THE LEGIONS OF GOTHAM! |
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Post by Batdan on Nov 28, 2005 22:05:57 GMT -5
You asked for opinions.
Don't get all frenzied just because you don't agree with mine.
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Post by /\/\att on Nov 28, 2005 22:28:58 GMT -5
I went with "hate it" because that was the only negative option, though I think "disappointed" is closer to the mark for me -- and this goes for both titles. My thoughts: 1. Batman No. 1 was an OK outing, nothing special, nothing outrageous. I liked the art just fine, because, well, Jim Lee is a terrific artist. 2. Batman No. 2, on the other hand, was a moral outrage. This has nothing to do with whether I like Batman dark and gritty or not -- in fact, that's my preference. But dark and gritty does not equal child-abusing, schizoid, sociopath. This Batman not only has no grounding in the DCU, he has no grounding in the Millerverse. 3. Miller and Lee (though I like his artwork) do not pair well. The story tone doesn't match the artistic tone at all. 4. The scheduling is horrendous. So much was made early on about how this was supposed to be DC's effort to reach beyond hardcore fanboys and either draw in new fans or draw back those who had left the hobby. If memory serves me right (and I could be wrong), it went from monthly to every six weeks before it even debuted, then went to bimonthly and now beyond that. That's a terrible way to build readership. 5. Which brings me to Superman. I liked the first issue just fine. But then -- bam! -- again, it goes bimonthly. 6. I'll wager right now: This will be all we will see of the All-Star titles. Once Miller, Lee, Morrison and Quitely are done, the titles will go away and DC will call it a well-intentioned but ultimately failed experiment. They're so focused on IC and 52/OYL right now that I think that's where the action will be. I'm done being Mr. Nice Guy. JUST GIVE IT SOME DAMN TIME! IN ISSUE 2, BATMAN WAS TRYING TO SCARE DICK TO NOT MAKE HIM GRIEVE! WE DON'T KNOW IF HE KILLED ANY OF THE COPS! MILLER AND LEE ARE A GREAT TEAM FOR THE TITLE! THEY'RE PROBABLY CHANGING THE SCHEDULE SO MUCH BECAUSE ALL OF YOU ARE GIVING NEGATIVE REVIEWS, SO MILLER HAS TO CHANGE THINGS! AND IF THE ALL STAR LINE GETS CANCELLED, I AM HOLDING ALL OF YOU NAY-SAYERS RESPONSIBLE, AND I WILL LEAVE THE LEGIONS OF GOTHAM! If you don't want to hear opinions, then don't ask for them. You gave the option on this thread to hear negative and positive outlooks. If you get frazzled, thats your own fault, man. Calm down..its just a comic! Furthermore...Miller is so full of himself..I don't see him changing anything for the fans. He writers for Miller. |
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Post by vishman007 on Nov 28, 2005 22:51:58 GMT -5
A little fire for ones side of the debate is always a good thing. Calm and cool is never interesting.
I agree the delays do suck big time, but i think people are a little unfair to Miller. They see the name and expect DKR or year 1. DKSA and All-star batman and robin so far have been fun reads for me, even though they dont hold up to DKR. Instead of bashing Miller (even if he is full of himself, and seems like a real *badword*), lets just give him a chance to see where he takes us with this story.
And I loved All-Star Superman, it'll be hard to wait until January, but I'm sticking by it.
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Post by /\/\att on Nov 28, 2005 22:59:43 GMT -5
A little fire for ones side of the debate is always a good thing. Calm and cool is never interesting. I agree the delays do suck big time, but i think people are a little unfair to Miller. They see the name and expect DKR or year 1. DKSA and All-star batman and robin so far have been fun reads for me, even though they dont hold up to DKR. Instead of bashing Miller (even if he is full of himself, and seems like a real *badword*), lets just give him a chance to see where he takes us with this story. And I loved All-Star Superman, it'll be hard to wait until January, but I'm sticking by it. A friendly debate is one thing. We don't need nasty attitudes here. One of the great things about LoG is we have mature, adult fans talking, and sometimes debating, with each other...but we do it in a respectful and decent manner. as for Miller -- I don't expect DKR..I expect a decent story...and thats not what I've been getting from him at all. It doesn't matter where he takes All Star...he's made Batman an abusive jerk...and that doesn't sit well with me, regardless of what else happens. Sometimes people just buy into their own hype..and to me, thats what Miller seems to have done. I mean c'mon...he attributed all that Vicki Vale in the first issue to the fact that he thinks Jim Lee draws hot women. That speaks volumes for how carefully he treats this story. ugh.  |
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Post by vishman007 on Nov 28, 2005 23:15:55 GMT -5
I mean c'mon...he attributed all that Vicki Vale in the first issue to the fact that he thinks Jim Lee draws hot women. That speaks volumes for how carefully he treats this story. ugh. Haha, first I heard about this. Yeah she was pretty much a throw away character. As for Miller's ability to write a good story, well that has been lacking for a while. If youve read Sin City, or even saw the movie, the stories arent anything great, its his characters and the atmosphere that make me enjoy those comics. I like the Batman in All-Star. Of course I saw it as he was scaring Dick and keeping him from crying and losing his compsure. Because if he grieves and feels better, then Robin wont be of much help. But if he just beats children, well I dont think anyone would like that. |
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Post by Batlaw on Nov 28, 2005 23:30:57 GMT -5
My thoughts? Miller woke up the morning of his deadline for issue #1 and realized not only had he not written a single word, but had already cashed the advance check. Then in a mad dash he snatched up his dream jounal off the nightstand and mailed it off to DC!
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Post by /\/\att on Nov 28, 2005 23:38:44 GMT -5
I mean c'mon...he attributed all that Vicki Vale in the first issue to the fact that he thinks Jim Lee draws hot women. That speaks volumes for how carefully he treats this story. ugh. Haha, first I heard about this. Yeah she was pretty much a throw away character. As for Miller's ability to write a good story, well that has been lacking for a while. If youve read Sin City, or even saw the movie, the stories arent anything great, its his characters and the atmosphere that make me enjoy those comics. I like the Batman in All-Star. Of course I saw it as he was scaring Dick and keeping him from crying and losing his compsure. Because if he grieves and feels better, then Robin wont be of much help. But if he just beats children, well I dont think anyone would like that. See..thats the thing though..its not just that he's beating Robin..but he's purposely dragging him down into his misery and his life.....the Batman I know always tries to keep those around him from getting pulled into his darkness! Next issue: Batman carries a gun and blows away all his enemies...but not before revealing that all his detective skills are thanks to the "Complete Idiots Guide to Vigilantism" by Clark Kent. |
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Post by HUSH on Nov 29, 2005 1:48:22 GMT -5
I'm done being Mr. Nice Guy. JUST GIVE IT SOME DAMN TIME! IN ISSUE 2, BATMAN WAS TRYING TO SCARE DICK TO NOT MAKE HIM GRIEVE! WE DON'T KNOW IF HE KILLED ANY OF THE COPS! MILLER AND LEE ARE A GREAT TEAM FOR THE TITLE! THEY'RE PROBABLY CHANGING THE SCHEDULE SO MUCH BECAUSE ALL OF YOU ARE GIVING NEGATIVE REVIEWS, SO MILLER HAS TO CHANGE THINGS! AND IF THE ALL STAR LINE GETS CANCELLED, I AM HOLDING ALL OF YOU NAY-SAYERS RESPONSIBLE, AND I WILL LEAVE THE LEGIONS OF GOTHAM! Isn't that a bit harsh, man? Everyone has their own opinions, and this thread is meant to bring out those opinions...even if people don't agree, good can and does come out of hearing each other out and learning each others' views...like /\/\att said, it is just a comic, and besides, I honestly don't think anyone's opinion is going to change the way Miller writes it. I also don't think they'll cancel All-Star before the current creative teams are done, which means we'll get a conclusion to this current story either way. |
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Post by reideen1313 on Nov 29, 2005 13:14:51 GMT -5
I'm glad that there are those who appreciate the book. It's not my cuppa though.
I only read the first issue. I dropped it because I thought the art and story were both very weak - much less than I was expecting. Certainly not worth the hype (or the bandwidth that I wasted in posting pics of the covers). That, along with the constant delays in shipping this title, will cause others to drop the book as well.
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Post by All Star Batman on Nov 29, 2005 19:45:02 GMT -5
Sorry about the meltdown. I've just been under a little stress lately. I have a Dr. Ed. test next week that I need to get at least a B on to get my learners permit, and I've haven't gotten much sleep lately. I respect your opinions, but it feels like I'm always the minority in these kinds of things. I'm sorry for what I said, but I still think that All Star is a great series. I just don't see what the problem is.
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Post by Batdan on Nov 29, 2005 20:08:50 GMT -5
Apology accepted.
And a 'hero' to you for facing up to it like a man.
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Post by All Star Batman on Nov 30, 2005 18:47:15 GMT -5
They had this in Toyfare's classifieds section:
CONFIDENTIAL TO DICK GRAYSON
"Who am I?" What are you dense? Are you retarded or something? Who the hell do you think I am?
CONFIDENTIAL TO THE GUY WHO KIDNAPPED ME
I still don't know who you are.
CONFIDENTIAL TO DICK GRAYSON
I'm the goddamn Batman!
CONFIDENTIAL TO BATMAN
Really? Talking like that, you could have fooled me.
CONFIDENTIAL TO DICK GRAYSON
You're a strong boy. Strong buy. 12 years old. Strong. You'll do. You'll do.
Toyfare got sucked in too! NOOOO!
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Post by HUSH on Dec 1, 2005 9:40:53 GMT -5
They had this in Toyfare's classifieds section: CONFIDENTIAL TO DICK GRAYSON "Who am I?" What are you dense? Are you retarded or something? Who the hell do you think I am? CONFIDENTIAL TO THE GUY WHO KIDNAPPED ME I still don't know who you are. CONFIDENTIAL TO DICK GRAYSON I'm the goddamn Batman! CONFIDENTIAL TO BATMAN Really? Talking like that, you could have fooled me. CONFIDENTIAL TO DICK GRAYSON You're a strong boy. Strong buy. 12 years old. Strong. You'll do. You'll do. Toyfare got sucked in too! NOOOO! That is pretty funny, though...i can't help but laugh. I'd better pick up this Toyfare. No harm done, just in the name of humor.  |
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Post by All Star Batman on Dec 5, 2005 20:09:10 GMT -5
You know what I find weird? Some have a problem with Batman attacking the police cars in issue 2, but in Batman Begins, he does the same thing, and they don't mind that. Ha! Got you there!
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Post by gotham95 on Dec 6, 2005 4:25:56 GMT -5
I kind of like it so far? I'm still getting into it though.
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Post by HUSH on Dec 8, 2005 6:51:06 GMT -5
You know what I find weird? Some have a problem with Batman attacking the police cars in issue 2, but in Batman Begins, he does the same thing, and they don't mind that. Precisely. |
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Post by All Star Batman on Dec 8, 2005 15:26:45 GMT -5
You know what I find weird? Some have a problem with Batman attacking the police cars in issue 2, but in Batman Begins, he does the same thing, and they don't mind that. Precisely. Yeah. It's okay if Nolan can do it, but when someone like Frank Miller does the same thing. they're all like "OH! YOU CAN'T DO THAT!" And besides, the things that you can do with the Batmobile in the Begins game could really kill someone. |
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Post by vishman007 on Dec 8, 2005 21:16:52 GMT -5
Yeah. It's okay if Nolan can do it, but when someone like Frank Miller does the same thing. they're all like "OH! YOU CAN'T DO THAT!" And besides, the things that you can do with the Batmobile in the Begins game could really kill someone. I think it sticks out more in a 30 page comic, than 5 minutes of 2.5 hr movie. |
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Post by All Star Batman on Dec 8, 2005 21:55:49 GMT -5
Going off the topic of the 'Batmobile taking out the police', if they replaced Miller and Lee with a team like Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale, would that work out for you?
I think Miller and Lee are great, but they should step down from it after their story to get this monkey off their back and let Sale and Loeb take over. All 4 of these guys are great creators in writing and in art.
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Post by gotham95 on Dec 8, 2005 22:11:13 GMT -5
How about Peter David and Art Adams?
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