|
Post by jlavaia on Jun 13, 2009 14:21:21 GMT -5
What does everyone think of the heel Punk? So far I like it. Though I question why they put him in a match with Jericho. I mean they're both heels now. i hope they let Punk take it all the way and be how he was in the indies. a feud with Jeff can take it there. that way we can get the classic Punk phrase, "i'm better than you because i dont do drugs". that would be so awesome.
|
|
|
Post by jlavaia on Jun 13, 2009 16:38:19 GMT -5
and i forgot to post it this morning and i just got reminded, Mitsuharu Misawa died today. during the GHC Tag Title match during NOAH's show today, Akitoshi Saito hit him with a backdrop suplex and Misawa landed wrong on his head and wasnt moving. the match was stopped and he was rushed to the hospital and he died in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. he was 46. this is truly a sad day in wrestling as Misawa is one of the greatest wrestlers to ever wrestle. where this will leave NOAH is unknown right now.
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Jun 13, 2009 17:38:07 GMT -5
Well I'm hoping Triple H wins. And a HIAC match between him and Orton will be cool. I am praying that Cena doesn't win Monday. What does everyone think of the heel Punk? So far I like it. Though I question why they put him in a match with Jericho. I mean they're both heels now. Orton should win it. The guy who beat him got hurt, he should get it right back. Why should they keep it off him and give it to someone else? What's the point in having him lose it if they're gonna give it back to him a week later?
|
|
|
Post by coliv1977 on Jun 13, 2009 19:25:40 GMT -5
What does everyone think of the heel Punk? So far I like it. Though I question why they put him in a match with Jericho. I mean they're both heels now. i hope they let Punk take it all the way and be how he was in the indies. a feud with Jeff can take it there. that way we can get the classic Punk phrase, "i'm better than you because i dont do drugs". that would be so awesome. I don't think Punk has completely turned heel, yet. Just because he cashed in the MITB against Hardy,(He did say he would've done it against Edge if he had won) and because he attacked Hardy on SD. Hardy attacked him first. He hasn't insulted the fans, he hasn't attacked another 'face...he hasn't done anything overtly "heelish"...yet!
|
|
|
Post by coliv1977 on Jun 13, 2009 19:27:29 GMT -5
Orton should win it. The guy who beat him got hurt, he should get it right back. Why should they keep it off him and give it to someone else? What's the point in having him lose it if they're gonna give it back to him a week later? True, but what was the point of having him lose in the first place if Batista was hurt? I didn't book that. I didn't agree with that either
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Jun 13, 2009 21:01:53 GMT -5
i hope they let Punk take it all the way and be how he was in the indies. a feud with Jeff can take it there. that way we can get the classic Punk phrase, "i'm better than you because i dont do drugs". that would be so awesome. I don't think Punk has completely turned heel, yet. Just because he cashed in the MITB against Hardy,(He did say he would've done it against Edge if he had won) and because he attacked Hardy on SD. Hardy attacked him first. He hasn't insulted the fans, he hasn't attacked another 'face...he hasn't done anything overtly "heelish"...yet! I'm hoping he goes full heel. Should be exciting like jlavaia said. What's the point in having him lose it if they're gonna give it back to him a week later? True, but what was the point of having him lose in the first place if Batista was hurt? I didn't book that. I didn't agree with that either Guess they weren't really thinking when they did that. Just like when they brought Kennedy back for one night and then released. Really, I think Vince is getting up there.
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Jun 14, 2009 21:00:15 GMT -5
KING OF THE MOUNTAIN MATCH FOR THE TNA WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPAJ Styles vs. Jeff Jarrett vs. Kurt Angle vs. Mick Foley vs. Samoa Joe TNA WORLD TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIPBeer Money, Inc. vs. Team 3D KING OF THE MOUNTAIN MATCH FOR THE TNA X DIVISION CHAMPIONSHIPAlex Shelly vs. Chris Sabin vs. Consequences Creed vs. Jay Lethal vs. Suicide TNA WOMEN’S KNOCKOUT CHAMPIONSHIPAngelina Love vs. Tara
|
|
|
Post by coliv1977 on Jun 15, 2009 20:23:45 GMT -5
Just in case nobody's watching Raw and hasn't heard, McMahon "sold" Raw...To Donald Trump!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by DrGreenEvil on Jun 16, 2009 13:14:33 GMT -5
Donald Trump!!!!!!!!!! WTH!!!!!!!! Is he such a media whore that now hes gotta go be on wrestling just to be on tv? To still be able to stroke his ego? And how long do you think this will last ?
I wish WWE would take a page out of WCW's book and bring back Terry Funk to be the commissioner/gm/whatever.
TOMMY DREAMER AS ECW CHAMP IS FREAKIN AWESOME!!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Jun 21, 2009 21:58:47 GMT -5
TNA SLAMMIVERSARY 2009 RESULTS Suicide def. Alex Shelley, Chris Sabin, Consequences Creed, and Jay Lethal in a King of the Mountain match to retain the TNA X Division Championship Christopher Daniels def. Shane Douglas to keep his spot on the TNA Roster Angelina Love def. Tara to retain the TNA Women's Knockout Championship Abyss and Taylor Wilde def. Daffney and Raven in a Monster's Ball Mixed Tag Team Match Sting def. Matt Morgan Beer Money, Inc. def Team 3D for the TNA World Tag Team Championship Kurt Angle def. AJ Styles, Jeff Jarrett, Mick Foley, and Sting in a King of the Mountain Match to win the TNA World Heavyweight Championship NEXT: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPCM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy WWE CHAMPIONSHIPRandy Orton vs. Triple H ECW WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP SCRAMBLE MATCHChristian vs. Finlay vs. Jack Swagger vs. Mark Henry vs. Tommy Dreamer WWE WOMEN'S CHAMPIONSHIPMelina vs. Michelle McCool MASK VS. TITLE MATCH FOR THE WWE INTERCONTINENTAL CHAMPIONSHIPChris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio WWE UNIFIED TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIPThe Colons vs. The Legacy
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Jun 28, 2009 21:55:58 GMT -5
WWE THE BASH 2009 RESULTS Tommy Dreamer def. Christian, Finlay, Jack Swagger and Mark Henry to win the ECW World Heavyweight Championship Scramble to retain the title Rey Mysterio def. Chris Jericho to win the WWE Intercontinental Championship Dolph Ziggler def. The Great Khali in a No Holds Barred Match Chris Jericho and Edge def. The Colons and The Legacy in a Triple Threat Match to win the WWE Unified Tag Team Championship Michelle McCool def. Melina to win the WWE Women's Championship Jeff Hardy def. CM Punk via DQ. Therefore Punk retains the World Heavyweight Championship John Cena def. The Miz Randy Orton def. Triple H in a 3 Stages of Hell Match to retain the WWE Championship NEXT:
|
|
|
Post by DrGreenEvil on Jul 10, 2009 23:21:59 GMT -5
Goldust was traded to ECW. I think a Dreamer - Goldust feud would be awesome!!!!! Make it really hardcore and for the ECW title. I would so watch that!!!
|
|
|
Post by jlavaia on Jul 11, 2009 0:53:06 GMT -5
Sheamus O'Shaunessy better get that belt real soon. Dreamer shouldnt even have it. Christian should have kept it until dropping it to Kozlov or O'Shaunessy. Kozlov & Sheamus are the best 2 wrestlers on that roster. i was hoping we'd get to see Jack Swagger take on Sheamus, but Swagger got moved over to Raw before we got that. and then they move Finlay cause i guess WWE cant have 2 Irish wrestlers on the same show. the goal of the ECW show is to get newly brought up talent tv time, exposure, and when someone shines, they get the belt to see if they can handle being moved to a top show. Dreamer has no business with that belt. he's still actively wrestling in that company to help the younger guys. Dreamer vs. Cage in terrible matches does nothing but showcase that he should have long retired.
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Jul 11, 2009 12:17:14 GMT -5
What do you have against Dreamer? He's a legend, and it's great to have him as ECW Champion.
|
|
|
Post by jlavaia on Jul 11, 2009 12:43:25 GMT -5
What do you have against Dreamer? He's a legend, and it's great to have him as ECW Champion. i have nothing against him. but he's not close to a legend. i have to hear you back up that statement. he was nothing but a solid mid-carder in his prime as the innovator of violence and he was a guy that could have a great feud. his almost decade long feud with Raven was excellent. other than that he has done nothing of relevance. he was never good enough to get the ECW Title when it was a seperate promotion and relevant title. he was handed the belt for a total of about 5 minutes before dropping it and that was just a thank you from a dying promotion and Heyman has said that it was done because he owed Dreamer money and couldnt pay him. if the match isnt hardcore he looks like he doesnt belong in it. the reason he currently has a job with WWE is because he has a good wrestling mind and he can train people and teach people. none of those things make him a legend. Jack Brisco is a legend. Harley Race is a legend. Ric Flair is a legend. The Rock is a legend. Bret Hart is a legend. Sting is a legend. Steve Austin is a legend. etc, etc, etc. Dreamer cant be put in the same category as those guys and if you truly believe he is, was, or will be as good as any of them than you definitely arent watching him perform and didnt watch the actual legends perform. please educate me on what makes you feel that Tommy Dreamer is in the same category as the wrestlers i named as legends. because he cant be put in close to the same category. he was never a top star and never will be a top star. he doesnt put fans in the chairs and he has no drawing ability. the level of competition he has faced in his career is nowhere near what the legends of this business have faced either. he's never been more than a mid-carder. a career mid-carder cannot be considered a wrestling legend.
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Jul 11, 2009 15:01:49 GMT -5
He helped put ECW on the map. And just because he's a midcarder now doesn't mean he can't be considered a legend. What makes someone a legend? Is it winning a world title? Some midcarders haven't won a world title but are considered legends.
|
|
|
Post by jlavaia on Jul 11, 2009 16:25:50 GMT -5
He helped put ECW on the map. And just because he's a midcarder now doesn't mean he can't be considered a legend. What makes someone a legend? Is it winning a world title? Some midcarders haven't won a world title but are considered legends. please name one career mid-carder that can be considered a legend. and ECW would have been put on the map without Dreamer. he was not an integral part of the promotion or of the promotion gaining prominance. Rob Van Dam is what made people take notice of the promotion. the promotion was put on the map the moment Shane Douglas threw away the NWA World Title. Terry Funk wrestling Bret Hart in one of the best pure wrestling matches of all-time solidified ECW as a legit promotion. Dreamer just wrestled for the promotion and had a memorable feud with one of the top stars of the promotion. longevity doesnt equate to legendary status in wrestling. World Titles play a role in legends as the guys that can draw and people come to see are generally the guys who get the titles. wrestling ability is key, mic work is key, drawing power is key, being a top wrestler in the world at some point during your career also can make you a legend. Dreamer has never been a top guy in his own country, let alone the world. he can cut an okay promo, but he doesnt maintain good repoir in confrontations. he has limited wrestling ability. you cant even call him a hardcore legend, as he hasnt done anything special in those types of matches to even call him that. he doesnt put on memorable matches and he'll never be a top guy. and you said just because he's a midcarder now he cant not be considered a legend. he's 38, way past his prime, has never been more than a midcarder, and is nearing the end of his time at WWE. guess what, there's nowhere to go but down from here. are you honestly going to tell me that you see WWE moving him to Raw or Smackdown and putting him in consistant main event matches against top guys and giving him title matches and attempting to make him a star? it will never happen. and if you honestly consider Dreamer a legend and feel that he is in the same category as guys like Harley Race, Bob Backlund, Bruno Sammartino, Hogan, Sting, Bret Hart, HBK, The Rock, Flair, etc then you really dont know wrestling.
|
|
|
Post by coliv1977 on Jul 11, 2009 22:06:05 GMT -5
He helped put ECW on the map. And just because he's a midcarder now doesn't mean he can't be considered a legend. What makes someone a legend? Is it winning a world title? Some midcarders haven't won a world title but are considered legends. please name one career mid-carder that can be considered a legend. and ECW would have been put on the map without Dreamer. he was not an integral part of the promotion or of the promotion gaining prominance. Rob Van Dam is what made people take notice of the promotion. the promotion was put on the map the moment Shane Douglas threw away the NWA World Title. Terry Funk wrestling Bret Hart in one of the best pure wrestling matches of all-time solidified ECW as a legit promotion. Dreamer just wrestled for the promotion and had a memorable feud with one of the top stars of the promotion. longevity doesnt equate to legendary status in wrestling. World Titles play a role in legends as the guys that can draw and people come to see are generally the guys who get the titles. wrestling ability is key, mic work is key, drawing power is key, being a top wrestler in the world at some point during your career also can make you a legend. Dreamer has never been a top guy in his own country, let alone the world. he can cut an okay promo, but he doesnt maintain good repoir in confrontations. he has limited wrestling ability. you cant even call him a hardcore legend, as he hasnt done anything special in those types of matches to even call him that. he doesnt put on memorable matches and he'll never be a top guy. and you said just because he's a midcarder now he cant not be considered a legend. he's 38, way past his prime, has never been more than a midcarder, and is nearing the end of his time at WWE. guess what, there's nowhere to go but down from here. are you honestly going to tell me that you see WWE moving him to Raw or Smackdown and putting him in consistant main event matches against top guys and giving him title matches and attempting to make him a star? it will never happen. and if you honestly consider Dreamer a legend and feel that he is in the same category as guys like Harley Race, Bob Backlund, Bruno Sammartino, Hogan, Sting, Bret Hart, HBK, The Rock, Flair, etc then you really dont know wrestling. Shockingly, I agree with you. But couldn't you call his feud with Raven legendary? Isn't that what really put ECW over as far as a top promotion? That and Mic work from guys like Shane Douglas and Dreamer? I think it's a huge factor
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Jul 11, 2009 22:52:04 GMT -5
He helped put ECW on the map. And just because he's a midcarder now doesn't mean he can't be considered a legend. What makes someone a legend? Is it winning a world title? Some midcarders haven't won a world title but are considered legends. please name one career mid-carder that can be considered a legend. and if you honestly consider Dreamer a legend and feel that he is in the same category as guys like Harley Race, Bob Backlund, Bruno Sammartino, Hogan, Sting, Bret Hart, HBK, The Rock, Flair, etc then you really dont know wrestling. Jim Duggan. Maybe not a legend among them, but a legend in his own way like Sabu, Sandman, RVD, and other ECW alumni.
|
|
|
Post by jlavaia on Jul 12, 2009 1:23:15 GMT -5
^ first, Duggan is definitely not a legend. not even close. since you think Dreamer and Duggan are legends, what do you call guys like Flair, Race, Austin, Hart, etc. those guys are so far above both Dreamer and Duggan. how can you call them legends. they are mid-carders, and Duggan has wrestled much of his career in WWE and WCW on the lower portion of the card, who achieved minimal success. Duggan is atrocious on the mic and always has been. he cant draw. how can you call him a legend? is your sole qualification for being a legend having been a mostly jobbing mid-carder for 20 years? neither one of them come close to being in the top 300 wrestlers of all-time. how can you seriously call them legends?
same thing for your second remark. Sandman is not a legend. RVD is not a legend. Sabu is borderline and a case can be made that he really isnt a legend. though Sabu has had a much better career than Dreamer and Duggan combined and is a far superior wrestler to both.
this has now become comical. Dreamer and Duggan cant be put into the same category as guys like Hogan, Misawa, Tsurata, Sting, Flair, Muta, Mascaras, Brisco, both Funks, Inoki, etc, etc. those are legends. learn more about wrestling, get some classic dvds, pay attention to them, and then come back here and try to put Dreamer and Duggan in the same category as actual legends of wrestling.
|
|
|
Post by coliv1977 on Jul 12, 2009 1:27:40 GMT -5
what do you call guys like Flair, Race, Austin, Hart, etc. Austin's not a legend. One feud doesn't make you a legend. I don't care how big it was or how popular you became, it doesn't make you a legend
|
|
|
Post by jlavaia on Jul 12, 2009 9:42:09 GMT -5
what do you call guys like Flair, Race, Austin, Hart, etc. Austin's not a legend. One feud doesn't make you a legend. I don't care how big it was or how popular you became, it doesn't make you a legend wow. what one feud are you referring to? he's had numerous large feuds throughout his entire career. i'm talking about entire career. not just WWE. you must be forgetting the classic matches he had with Ricky Steamboat, the great tag team wrestler he was prior to becoming a superstar as well. maybe the feud you are referring to is the excellent feud he had with Bret Hart. or it could be the feud with HBK. or the feud with The Rock. i would assume you are only referring to his feud with McMahon though and forgot that Austin spent many, many years wrestling top tier matches against top tier talent. Austin single handedly made the WWE the top promotion in the world. he transcended the business and was one of the top superstars of all time. in his prime he was a consistant top 5 wrestler in the world. he had molre drawing power than almost any wrestler ever aside from maybe Hogan and The Rock. he was technical expert and he had great mic skills. there was a point in his career when he was the best in the world. how can you can really try and say he isnt a legend is almost as bad as trying to say that Tommy Dreamer and Jim Duggan are legends. what's going on here guys? are you just out to make me laugh or did you guys forget the past 20 years of wrestling and what has happened. to say one of the best wrestlers ever isnt a legend is mind boggling. wow.
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Jul 12, 2009 12:11:26 GMT -5
Hey, here's something: accept someone else's opinion.
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Jul 12, 2009 12:38:11 GMT -5
TNA WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP Kurt Angle vs. Mick Foley TNA LEGENDS CHAMPIONSHIP AJ Styles vs. Kevin Nash TNA WORLD TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP Beer Money, Inc. vs. The Main Event Mafia Jenna Morasca vs. Sharmell Daniels vs. Matt Morgan Samoa Joe vs. Sting
|
|
|
Post by DrGreenEvil on Jul 12, 2009 14:44:05 GMT -5
Hey, here's something: accept someone else's opinion. Hallelujah!!!! You don't how much I have wanted to say that to so many people on the message boards I am a part of.
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Jul 12, 2009 15:13:08 GMT -5
Hey, here's something: accept someone else's opinion. Hallelujah!!!! You don't how much I have wanted to say that to so many people on the message boards I am a part of. One can only take so much, right?
|
|
|
Post by jlavaia on Jul 12, 2009 15:35:35 GMT -5
what you guys arent realizing is that you are stating opinions that arent fact based. they are random comments that show a lack of knowledge in this subject. saying that one of the best ever isnt a legend is almost a troll-like comment in a wrestling thread. saying 2 guys who arent close to the league of legends are legends and then when asked to state why you feel that way, cant come up with anything except to say to say they are a legend in their own way, is called a factless statement. not an opinion.
everyone is an entitled to their own opinion and i have no problem with someone saying something like "i think so and so is great and in my opinion they should be considered a legend". when someone says plainly "Tommy Dreamer is a legend" and cant back it up (its really not possible to back up), thats a factless statement (roughly translated to bs). same thing as saying "Austin is not a legend" and then following that ridiculous statement by saying he only had one feud in his career and thats what made him so great. another factless statement. when stating opinions, here's some keywords and phrases:
i think i feel in my opinion my feeling is this this is how i see things as i see it
any of those will clearly get it across that you are stating opinion and not stating what you perceive to be fact. things like "is" and "is not" are terms and phrases to denote factual statements, not opinions.
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Jul 12, 2009 15:40:24 GMT -5
What makes you an expert then?
|
|
|
Post by jlavaia on Jul 12, 2009 16:28:32 GMT -5
^ aside from my experience working in the business, my eyes and extensive knowledge of wrestling. i've shown why Dreamer and Duggan clearly arent legends. you cant show anything that can even make it a debatable thing. neither has done anything of substance in wrestling. neither can draw the crowds necessary to make someone a legend. neither has held any top titles, faced top talent. neither are great actual wrestlers. neither are good on the mic. neither excel in their particular types of wrestling.
as for Austin being a legend. watch him wrestle Ricky Steamboat at Clash of the Champions. watch him wrestle Bret Hart in a submission match at Wrestlemania 13. watch him wrestle The Rock at Wrestlemania 17. watch him wrestle Kurt Angle at Summerslam. HBK at WM14. it goes on and on. watch those matches and try to say that Austin wasnt a great technical wrestler. then go back and try to catch some of his great promos and confrontations (i'm sure youtube can help you with some of the promos). then go back in time and watch Austin single handedly make Raw beat Nitro in ratings and then watch as he, along with The Rock, make WWF the top promotion in the world. he drew ratings. he drew crowds. then come back here and try to say that Austin isnt a legend and Tommy Dreamer and Jim Duggan are. while Dreamer was working mid card gimmick matches in a bingo hall, Austin was headlining Wrestlemania. when Duggan was getting fed to The Giant and The Barbarian on a regular basis, Austin was headlining every major event. please be serious, you cant honestly think that Dreamer and Duggan are legends and Austin is not. if truly feel that way then you really dont know wrestling and really shouldnt make comments acting like you do.
|
|
|
Post by Dark Nightwing on Jul 12, 2009 17:05:11 GMT -5
I've always kind of ignored the wrestling thread as i haven't had any interest in it for a very long time. However, stumbling upon this little legendary conversation picked my interest.
Austin was absolutely legendary. He was all the rage. I can't tell you how many of my friends wore Stone Cold Steve Austin shirts. I can't speak from a technical point or anything like that because I was very young at the time. But I know the effect that he had on us.
I am no longer a wrestling fan. I haven't watched it in many years. I had to wikipedia this Dreamer guy. If I haven't heard of him, then chances are that he didn't make it to legendary status.
|
|