|
Post by Eric on Jul 12, 2009 17:12:16 GMT -5
There are many factors that can make a wrestler a "legend" in the business. Unfortunately, I personally don't see Dreamer or Duggan meeting any of those factors. Just because a performer has been in the wrestling business for many years does not make them a "legend". To me, calling those 2 legends is like calling The Brooklyn Brawler a legend.
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Jul 12, 2009 18:46:44 GMT -5
Dreamer is a legend in his own way. Is there a reason I can't think that?
|
|
|
Post by Eric on Jul 12, 2009 19:55:36 GMT -5
Dreamer is a legend in his own way. Is there a reason I can't think that? No, not at all. If you have the personal feeling that any wrestler is a legend, then thats your right. I think thats the basic thought jlavia was trying to get across. Your opinion is your opinion. Thats why I used "to me" and "personally" in my post. I also think that what jlavia is trying to get across is that within the world of professional wrestling, Dreamer is not considered a legend, and I have to agree.
On another note, jlavia, do you follow any of the small independant wrestling promotions? Like Cleveland All Pro Wrestling?
|
|
|
Post by jlavaia on Jul 12, 2009 20:34:08 GMT -5
On another note, jlavia, do you follow any of the small independant wrestling promotions? Like Cleveland All Pro Wrestling? its tough for me to fully follow all indy promotions, especially stuff thats way out of state for me as i cant go to the shows live. i go to alot of small shows in NC as i live here and i read results from almost all promotions and i follow certain wrestlers that wrestle in the Ohio area and for CAPW. i recommend getting to one of their shows that Jessicka Havok is wrestling on as she can wrestle and she should be wrestling for SHIMMER and/or Chickfight. Mitch Ryder i know from CHIKARA and i know he wrestles for the promotion. same thing with Sami Callahan, who i've seen in ROH. they've brought in Flash Flanagan for a few shows lately and i've always liked his ring work and i love MCW, so i've been watching him for years. i have Damaja's matches from went he worked for the promotion on dvd because i'm a huge Damaja fan (its hard to find a guy who hits a better chokebomb). Chad Collyer wrestles for them and OVW alot. if its in your area you shouldnt be disappointed at one of their shows. i know they have a big show coming up next weekend and another in August. i've liked what i've seen from the promotion and especially from Jessicka Havok. she's one of the best female indy wrestlers not working for SHIMMER and Chickfight.
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Jul 12, 2009 22:34:50 GMT -5
Dreamer is a legend in his own way. Is there a reason I can't think that? No, not at all. If you have the personal feeling that any wrestler is a legend, then thats your right. I think thats the basic thought jlavia was trying to get across. Your opinion is your opinion. Thats why I used "to me" and "personally" in my post. I also think that what jlavia is trying to get across is that within the world of professional wrestling, Dreamer is not considered a legend, and I have to agree.
On another note, jlavia, do you follow any of the small independant wrestling promotions? Like Cleveland All Pro Wrestling?What the...I didn't say all wrestlers are legends! You're putting words in my mouth. I'm only saying that Tommy Dreamer is a legend in his own way because of his history with ECW. I'm not saying stuff like "Oh Super Crazy is a legend!" And Jim Duggan has been wrestling a long time, and he was the first ever Royal Rumble winner. I was only throwing out an example of a midcarder who could be a legend. How about Piper, Bob Orton, Eddie Guerrero, Curt Henning, huh? They were all inducted in the HoF, have a history of being midcard wrestlers and aren't they considered legends? Just give me a break and respect my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by coliv1977 on Jul 12, 2009 23:04:45 GMT -5
No, not at all. If you have the personal feeling that any wrestler is a legend, then thats your right. I think thats the basic thought jlavia was trying to get across. Your opinion is your opinion. Thats why I used "to me" and "personally" in my post. I also think that what jlavia is trying to get across is that within the world of professional wrestling, Dreamer is not considered a legend, and I have to agree.
On another note, jlavia, do you follow any of the small independant wrestling promotions? Like Cleveland All Pro Wrestling? What the...I didn't say all wrestlers are legends! You're putting words in my mouth. I'm only saying that Tommy Dreamer is a legend in his own way because of his history with ECW. I'm not saying stuff like "Oh Super Crazy is a legend!" And Jim Duggan has been wrestling a long time, and he was the first ever Royal Rumble winner. I was only throwing out an example of a midcarder who could be a legend. How about Piper, Bob Orton, Eddie Guerrero, Curt Henning, huh? They were all inducted in the HoF, have a history of being midcard wrestlers and aren't they considered legends? Just give me a break and respect my opinion. I think the thing of it is, there are wrestling legends in general and there are legends of a specific promotion. Two separate categories. And yes, I do believe that doing it for a long period of time makes you a legend. Austin, Taker, Michaels, HHH...those guys are WWE legends but they're not wrestling legends because they didn't have great success in more than one company. Austin, Taker and HHH were midcarders in WCW before they were in WWE. Michaels was one half a tagteam for a while, etc. As opposed to Flair, who was an NWA legend, went to WWE, competed in the RR for over an hour and won the WWE title. Had headlined a WM against Savage, than went BACK to WCW and continued where he left off. Nick Bockwinkle is an AWA legend, not a wrestling legend, Harley Race was an NWA legend, not a wrestling legend, Just because McMahon put them in the HOF, doesn't make them a wrestling legend. I agree that Duggan is not a legend. He never main evented any PPV's, never won any titles(that I can think of) never had a huge feud(although he and Dibiase did have a big feud with the Freebirds in Mid-South, but he never had a huge one-one-one feud)...so, like I said, it depends on what category of legend you wanna put someone in, IMO
|
|
|
Post by jlavaia on Jul 13, 2009 2:40:35 GMT -5
^ you do know that wresting is worldwide. Race and Bockwinkel were top stars in Japan for much of their careers as well. and Race was buried in WWF because of what happened when Race outwrestled Superstar Graham years before and he made their title look like nothing. jumping promotions doesnt mean anything. Jumbo Tsurata wrestled basically his whole career for AJPW. he's a worldwide, all-time, legend of wrestling. he's not just a japanese legend. he's a full blown true legend. and i agree about the WWE Hall of Fame. thats a joke. Pete Rose is in it. The Fridge is in it. the WWE HOF has no bearing on the business and who was actually a true legend of wrestling.
memorable veterans can be considered classic superstars. basically if you want to know the difference look at it like this. take the wrestler you want to consider as a legend and then compare them to someone like Hogan or Flair or any of the truly elite legends of wrestling history. if you can honestly think that wrestler had just as impressive a career and had just as much star power or abilty as them then you can probaly make a case that they are a legend. if not, and they were just a memorable wrestler who was somewhat successful, then they are a classic superstar. thats the easiest way to look at it.
and All-Star, Shadowbat wasnt putting words in your mouth. what he was saying is that if your personal feeling is that a particular wrestler is a legend, thats your right. basically you can think anything you want of anyone. he wasnt saying that you think every wrestler is a legend.
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Jul 13, 2009 11:50:17 GMT -5
^ you do know that wresting is worldwide. Race and Bockwinkel were top stars in Japan for much of their careers as well. and Race was buried in WWF because of what happened when Race outwrestled Superstar Graham years before and he made their title look like nothing. jumping promotions doesnt mean anything. Jumbo Tsurata wrestled basically his whole career for AJPW. he's a worldwide, all-time, legend of wrestling. he's not just a japanese legend. he's a full blown true legend. and i agree about the WWE Hall of Fame. thats a joke. Pete Rose is in it. The Fridge is in it. the WWE HOF has no bearing on the business and who was actually a true legend of wrestling. memorable veterans can be considered classic superstars. basically if you want to know the difference look at it like this. take the wrestler you want to consider as a legend and then compare them to someone like Hogan or Flair or any of the truly elite legends of wrestling history. if you can honestly think that wrestler had just as impressive a career and had just as much star power or abilty as them then you can probaly make a case that they are a legend. if not, and they were just a memorable wrestler who was somewhat successful, then they are a classic superstar. thats the easiest way to look at it. and All-Star, Shadowbat wasnt putting words in your mouth. what he was saying is that if your personal feeling is that a particular wrestler is a legend, thats your right. basically you can think anything you want of anyone. he wasnt saying that you think every wrestler is a legend. Well it's what it sounded like. It's kinda hard to tell what people mean to say on the internet.
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Jul 19, 2009 21:53:45 GMT -5
TNA VICTORY ROAD 2009 Angelina Love def. Tara to win the TNA Women's Knockout Championship Matt Morgan def. Daniels Abyss def. Dr. Stevie in a No DQ match Team 3D def. The British Invasion to retain the IWGP Tag Team Championship Jenna Morasca def. Sharmell Kevin Nash def. AJ Styles to win the TNA Legends Championship The Main Event Mafia def. Beer Money, Inc. to win the TNA World Tag Team Championship Samoa Joe def. Sting Kurt Angle def. Mick Foley to retain the TNA World Heavyweight Championship NEXT: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRIPLE THREAT MATCH FOR THE WWE CHAMPIONSHIPJohn Cena vs. Randy Orton vs. Triple H WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPCM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy WWE INTERCONTINENTAL CHAMPIONSHIPDolph Ziggler vs. Rey Mysterio ECW WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPChristian vs. Tommy Dreamer WWE UNIFIED TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIPChris Jericho and TBA vs. The Legacy WWE DIVA'S CHAMPIONSHIPMaryse vs. Mickie James
|
|
|
Post by coliv1977 on Jul 26, 2009 21:04:52 GMT -5
Jericho's partner was Big Show!!
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Jul 26, 2009 21:56:02 GMT -5
WWE NIGHT OF CHAMPIONS 2009 RESULTS Big Show and Chris Jericho def. The Legacy for the WWE Unified Tag Team Championship Christian def. Tommy Dreamer to win the ECW World Heavyweight Championship Kofi Kingston def. Carlito, Jack Swagger, The Miz, Montel Vontavious Porter, and Primo in a Six-Pack Challenge to retain the WWE United States Championship Michelle McCool def. Melina to retain the WWE Women's Championship Randy Orton def. John Cena and Triple H in a Triple Threat Match to retain the WWE Championship Mickie James def. Maryse to win the WWE Diva's Championship Rey Mysterio def. Dolph Ziggler to retain the WWE Intercontinental Championship Jeff Hardy def. CM Punk to win the World Heavyweight Championship NEXT:
|
|
|
Post by jlavaia on Jul 30, 2009 16:47:22 GMT -5
WWE has released Brian Kendrick. i figured they'd keep him around just to continue getting fine money from him.
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Aug 9, 2009 18:39:01 GMT -5
STEEL ASYLUM MATCH TO BECOME NO. 1 CONTENDER FOR THE TNA X DIVISION CHAMPIONSHIP THREE WAY MATCH FOR THE TNA WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP Kurt Angle vs. Sting vs. TBA TNA LEGENDS CHAMPIONSHIP Kevin Nash vs. Mick Foley TNA WOMEN'S KNOCKOUT CHAMPIONSHIP Angelina Love vs. ODB IWGP TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP Beer Money, Inc. vs. The British Invasion TNA WORLD TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP The Main Event Mafia vs. Team 3D TNA X DIVISION CHAMPIONSHIP Homicide vs. Samoa Joe
|
|
|
Post by jlavaia on Aug 9, 2009 20:07:43 GMT -5
^ that card is incorrect. Beer Money isnt facing The British Invasion in an IWGP Tag Title Match. Team 3D are the IWGP Tag Team Champions. they never lost the belts as the match with British Invasion was not a NJPW sanctioned title match. New Japan issued an immediate press release after that match a few weeks ago and there's a good chance this could kill their relationship with TNA, which hurts TNA a whole lot more than it hurts New Japan. so while the match may still occur at the ppv, it is definitely not a title match as neither of those teams hold the belts.
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Aug 9, 2009 22:24:46 GMT -5
^ that card is incorrect. Beer Money isnt facing The British Invasion in an IWGP Tag Title Match. Team 3D are the IWGP Tag Team Champions. they never lost the belts as the match with British Invasion was not a NJPW sanctioned title match. New Japan issued an immediate press release after that match a few weeks ago and there's a good chance this could kill their relationship with TNA, which hurts TNA a whole lot more than it hurts New Japan. so while the match may still occur at the ppv, it is definitely not a title match as neither of those teams hold the belts. Dam Wikipedia!
|
|
|
Post by coliv1977 on Aug 10, 2009 17:42:25 GMT -5
^ that card is incorrect. Beer Money isnt facing The British Invasion in an IWGP Tag Title Match. Team 3D are the IWGP Tag Team Champions. they never lost the belts as the match with British Invasion was not a NJPW sanctioned title match. New Japan issued an immediate press release after that match a few weeks ago and there's a good chance this could kill their relationship with TNA, which hurts TNA a whole lot more than it hurts New Japan. so while the match may still occur at the ppv, it is definitely not a title match as neither of those teams hold the belts. TNA's website has Beer Money Vs British Invasion for the IWGP titles and Team 3D Vs Steiner/Booker T for the TNA titles...
|
|
|
Post by jlavaia on Aug 10, 2009 22:03:45 GMT -5
the match may still happen, its just not for those belts.they arent TNA titles and New Japan issued a press release stating that Team 3D are still the IWGP Tag Team Champions. TNA has absolutely no authority over the belts. its like at Lockdown when the Guns took on LAX and No Limit for the IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Tag Team Titles. that was not an official title match as Hernandez doesnt meet the weight requirement for the title. TNA just likes to do what they want while the titles are still around. they've basically cost Team 3D the belts as you just know that they will be dropping them during their next defense in Japan.
|
|
|
Post by coliv1977 on Aug 11, 2009 21:21:48 GMT -5
the match may still happen, its just not for those belts.they arent TNA titles and New Japan issued a press release stating that Team 3D are still the IWGP Tag Team Champions. TNA has absolutely no authority over the belts. its like at Lockdown when the Guns took on LAX and No Limit for the IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Tag Team Titles. that was not an official title match as Hernandez doesnt meet the weight requirement for the title. TNA just likes to do what they want while the titles are still around. they've basically cost Team 3D the belts as you just know that they will be dropping them during their next defense in Japan. This was in the wrestling tab on my igoogle homepage: New Japan Pro Wrestling is now officially recognizing TNA's British Invasion (Brutus Magnus and Doug Williams) as the 53rd generation IWGP Tag Team Champions. This is a change from last week when New Japan issued a statement saying they were not acknowledging the title change on iMPACT! two weeks ago with The British Invasion defeating Team 3D to become the new IWGP Tag Team Champions and that 3D were still the reigning champions. While it isn't known why the company changed their stance so quickly, the belief is that some outside pressure caused them to do so.
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Aug 16, 2009 21:59:13 GMT -5
TNA HARD JUSTICE 2009 RESULTS Daniels won the Steel Asylum Match to become no. 1 contender to the TNA X Division Championship Abyss def. Jethro Holliday Hernandez def. Rob Terry to keep his TNA World Heavyweight Championship Feast or Fired briefcase The British Invasion def. Beer Money, Inc. to retain the IWGP Tag Team Championship Cody Deaner and ODB def. Angelina Love and Velvet Sky to win the TNA Women's Knockout Championship for ODB Samoa Joe def. Homicide to win the TNA X Division Championship The Main Event Mafia def. Team 3D in a Falls Count Anywhere match to retain the TNA World Tag Team Championship Kevin Nash def. Mick Foley to win the TNA Legends Championship Kurt Angle def. Matt Morgan and Sting in a Three Way match to retain the TNA World Heavyweight Championship NEXT: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- WWE INTERCONTINENTAL CHAMPIONSHIP Dolph Ziggler vs. Rey Mysterio
TABLES, LADDERS, AND CHAIRS MATCH FOR THE WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP CM Punk vs. Jeff HardyWWE CHAMPIONSHIP John Cena vs. Randy OrtonWWE UNIFIED TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIPBig Show and Chris Jericho vs. Cryme TymeD-Generation X vs. The Legacy
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Aug 23, 2009 21:59:59 GMT -5
WWE SUMMERSLAM 2009 RESULTS Rey Mysterio def. Dolph Ziggler to retain the WWE Intercontinental Championship Montel Vontavious Porter def. Jack Swagger Big Show and Chris Jericho def. Cryme Tyme to retain the WWE Unified Tag Team Championship Kane def. The Great Khali D-Generation X def. The Legacy Christian def. William Regal to retain the ECW World Heavyweight Championship Randy Orton def. John Cena to retain the WWE Championship CM Punk def. Jeff Hardy in a Tables, Ladders, and Chairs match to win the World Heavyweight Championship NEXT:
|
|
|
Post by jlavaia on Aug 28, 2009 19:38:12 GMT -5
1 hour and 22 minutes left. haha. maybe his brother will finally get a real push now.
|
|
|
Post by jlavaia on Aug 29, 2009 1:18:28 GMT -5
so how long before Jeff quits MX racing and returns to wrestling? i give it maybe a year. he said he only really started racing last year, so i cant see him winning too much.
|
|
|
Post by coliv1977 on Aug 29, 2009 10:30:36 GMT -5
so how long before Jeff quits MX racing and returns to wrestling? i give it maybe a year. he said he only really started racing last year, so i cant see him winning too much. I thought Mysterio was supposed to lose the title last night because he's suspended...
|
|
|
Post by jlavaia on Aug 29, 2009 11:21:06 GMT -5
so how long before Jeff quits MX racing and returns to wrestling? i give it maybe a year. he said he only really started racing last year, so i cant see him winning too much. I thought Mysterio was supposed to lose the title last night because he's suspended... Smackdown was taped on Tuesday. he didnt get suspended until Thursday and they announced that the suspension wont begin until next Wednesday, so he can still wrestle on the big house show on Sunday and he can drop or vacate the title at the taping this Tuesday.
|
|
|
Post by coliv1977 on Aug 30, 2009 9:50:35 GMT -5
I thought Mysterio was supposed to lose the title last night because he's suspended... Smackdown was taped on Tuesday. he didnt get suspended until Thursday and they announced that the suspension wont begin until next Wednesday, so he can still wrestle on the big house show on Sunday and he can drop or vacate the title at the taping this Tuesday. Ahh...I didn't realize the suspension was after the taping. Thx
|
|
|
Post by coliv1977 on Sept 5, 2009 15:25:07 GMT -5
Is anybody else as much a fan of John Morrison as I am? I think he's phenomenal, and he's gotten much better on the mic. I hope he becomes huge very soon, ie, Cena, Jeff Hardy huge...I've read that he copies a lot of Low Ki's moves, but I wasn't watching TNA when XXX was at their peek, so I wouldn't know...
|
|
|
Post by jlavaia on Sept 5, 2009 16:11:16 GMT -5
^ i too am a fan of Morrison. WWE loves him too as he's 100% homegrown. while its nice he has gold again, i thought for sure that he'd feud with Punk over the World Title. regardless, with Jeff Hardy gone from the company, Edge still on the shelf, Jericho still a tag champ, someone needs to step up and take Hardy's spot. if no one gets "traded" it really cant be anyone else but Morrison, which he deserves. the show cant survive for long without losing ratings, getting stale, etc, with just Undertaker and C.M. Punk as its only top guys. Morrison at the top of the card can keep things fresh (yes i realize that the only way they can go is Punk/Morrison and its been done to death, but for the World Title and with a role reversal it'll be alittle different).
and the only thing he may have gotten from Low Ki's arsenal are the kicks and some generic submission maneuvers. they each wrestle a very different style and each utilizes a much different move set.
|
|
|
Post by coliv1977 on Sept 5, 2009 18:19:14 GMT -5
^ i too am a fan of Morrison. WWE loves him too as he's 100% homegrown. while its nice he has gold again, i thought for sure that he'd feud with Punk over the World Title. regardless, with Jeff Hardy gone from the company, Edge still on the shelf, Jericho still a tag champ, someone needs to step up and take Hardy's spot. if no one gets "traded" it really cant be anyone else but Morrison, which he deserves. the show cant survive for long without losing ratings, getting stale, etc, with just Undertaker and C.M. Punk as its only top guys. Morrison at the top of the card can keep things fresh (yes i realize that the only way they can go is Punk/Morrison and its been done to death, but for the World Title and with a role reversal it'll be alittle different). and the only thing he may have gotten from Low Ki's arsenal are the kicks and some generic submission maneuvers. they each wrestle a very different style and each utilizes a much different move set. He's had at least 2 matches recently that are among the best of the year, IMO. Against Edge and Mysterio(I'm sure there have been more, but I just can't think of any other right now). JLavaia, I'm curious, as somewhat who has worked in the industry, what do you do with a guy who's right on the verge of making it big like that, to put him over the top? What kinds of situations/matches/feuds do you put him in? What kind of booking do you do? Is it just luck based on fan reaction or can you control it somehow?
|
|
|
Post by jlavaia on Sept 5, 2009 19:09:13 GMT -5
^ all Morrison needs is a big win against a true top tier guy. remember for Jeff Hardy it was his win against Triple H that propelled him to main event status. Morrison has gotten big wins and had great matches, but he needs that clean win against one of the top in the company. he needs to beat Triple H or Orton or even HBK at a big ppv. being on Smackdown he really just needs to beat Punk or Taker at this moment.
the thing with Morrison though is that they gave him the IC title now, which means they are probaly looking to wait to give him the title. they could be going the old school route of building him up and waiting until the last possible moment until giving him the shot. now that tactic i dislike, as it can backfire (like it did for WCW with Magnum T.A.). see Morrison has always been good and WWE has liked him from the start but they jumped the gun. he was still basically a heel up until he made the save with the Hardys. i dont think anyone could have expected that he could be turned in minutes like that though. so now they have a ridiculously talented performer who is super over right now and they cant do anything with it. thats why he got the IC title instead of Ziggler. so WWE may milk the match with Ziggler into a feud depending on what they are doing with Punk/Taker and how long they will keep the tag titles on Jericho and Big Show. in all seriousness we could be waiting until Survivor Series to see him get the title. i can easily and happily see Punk vs. Morrison vs. Jericho in a triple threat match. that or if he gets to be a top guy around that time we may see him win the Rumble.
|
|
|
Post by All Star Batman on Sept 6, 2009 12:26:37 GMT -5
SUBMISSION MATCH FOR THE WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPCM Punk vs. The Undertaker "I QUIT" MATCH FOR THE WWE CHAMPIONSHIPJohn Cena vs. Randy Orton SUBMISSIONS COUNT ANYWHERE MATCHD-Generation X vs. The Legacy WWE UNIFIED TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIPBig Show and Chris Jericho vs. Mark Henry and Montel Vontavious Porter SINGAPORE CANE MATCHThe Great Khali vs. Kane WWE INTERCONTINENTAL CHAMPIONSHIPDolph Ziggler vs. John Morrison
|
|