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Post by svengali1337 on Dec 27, 2008 22:44:57 GMT -5
I think Tim Burton is better by far. It might be hard for some to say because Christopher Nolan's movies have better CGI and actors, but don't think about anything other than the directing. Tim Burton knows how to make the Bat feel real. He also made the movies a bit dark which i enjoyed. I've heard he used to read the comics when he was a kid. I love all of his movies and a big fan of his work. Looking back now i will admit that the acting wasnt that good at times and the silly jokes didn't help either xD.
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Dec 28, 2008 1:31:25 GMT -5
I disagree with you quite a bit as far as the directing goes. What Burton did was good for what it was, but it hasn't withstood the test of time IMO. I remember someone saying awhile back that Burton should only do original movies because he messes up everything he adapts. Without nostalgia, there is no reason to think that Batman is better than The Dark Knight. Some people, like yourself, get really into his work. I think the reason for that is because it is easy to see what the movies will highlight; weird scenery, a Danny Elfman score, and Johnny Depp. That being said, some of his movies are great. I love Beetlejuice, Edward Scissorhands, and Nightmare Before Christmas. I respect his place in Batman's history, taking him away from the Adam West portrayal. As far as the directing goes, both of Burton's movies were more about the villains than Batman. And lets not forget about Prince. The music is so much better in the Nolan movies. I grow tired of Elfman's music. It is blatant. There is never any subtlety to it. As far as feeling real, I don't see how you can make it more real than in BB and TDK. They show how Batman becomes Batman. They also detail his past, rather than just a simple scene. This Batman is as real as possible. I would love to hear you go into further detail about your opinion.
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Post by batfan93 on Dec 28, 2008 2:55:36 GMT -5
I perfer Burton. I don't necessarily want my Batman to be realistic, as long as I can say "That's Batman" freely. Don't get me wrong, I love Chris Nolan's films, but I still perfer the old ones. The whole appearance, the sets, the suits...To some Burton may have not made a better movie (I like his better), but he made a better Batman movie.
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Post by batman1973 on Dec 28, 2008 10:04:49 GMT -5
I disagree with you quite a bit as far as the directing goes. What Burton did was good for what it was, but it hasn't withstood the test of time IMO. I remember someone saying awhile back that Burton should only do original movies because he messes up everything he adapts. Without nostalgia, there is no reason to think that Batman is better than The Dark Knight. Some people, like yourself, get really into his work. I think the reason for that is because it is easy to see what the movies will highlight; weird scenery, a Danny Elfman score, and Johnny Depp. That being said, some of his movies are great. I love Beetlejuice, Edward Scissorhands, and Nightmare Before Christmas. I respect his place in Batman's history, taking him away from the Adam West portrayal. As far as the directing goes, both of Burton's movies were more about the villains than Batman. And lets not forget about Prince. The music is so much better in the Nolan movies. I grow tired of Elfman's music. It is blatant. There is never any subtlety to it. As far as feeling real, I don't see how you can make it more real than in BB and TDK. They show how Batman becomes Batman. They also detail his past, rather than just a simple scene. This Batman is as real as possible. I would love to hear you go into further detail about your opinion. No they did not. BB and TDK were jokes as to the back story. Yes, using Chicago as the Gotham backdrop looked better than a Hoolyweird soundstage, at least Burton did better at getting the villians right.(with an exception to Catwoman)
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Dec 28, 2008 10:55:31 GMT -5
Is this a joke? Nolan! The original Batman 89 was fantastic, but I lost my respect for Burton with BR. It was too dark and strange, I simply hated it. Though Nolan didnt fail to impress me on BB or TDK, and BB is actually what got me into Batman.
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Post by All Star Batman on Dec 28, 2008 18:08:55 GMT -5
Nolan, no contest. He knows how to get Batman down. He showed just how Batman got the suit, the Batmobile, and the gadgets. Burton just showed Bruce as Batman with no explanation to anything. And for that matter, let me point out something: Burton's Batman killed. Nolan knows Batman enough to know that he doesn't kill. In 89, when blew up the whole chemical plant with Joker's henchman still inside, and in Returns, he set one of the clowns on fire, and strapped a bomb onto that big guy, smiling while he does it! That's not Batman! Nolan's Batman wins no matter how many points about Burton people bring up. Also, Batman Begins is what brought me back into the Batman universe.
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Post by koreanrambo on Dec 28, 2008 21:40:01 GMT -5
Tim Burton because he brought Batman back to the big screen after the Adam West Batman. With Tim I believe that none of the other batman movies would have been made or would have taken even longer.
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Dec 28, 2008 21:40:42 GMT -5
Batman1973, I don't understand how Burton "got the villains right." Are we talking about the characters' motives? Are we talking about the similarity to comics? I don't understand what you mean. I also don't understand why you find the backstory to be a joke. What was wrong with it? I know that some fans have problems with movie adaptations in that they do not line up with the comics, but they aren't supposed to. Some changes have to be made to appeal to the general population, not just fans of the comic. And given the amount of different stories, universes, and things like that, there is no possible way to fit everything the comics does into a movie. I do not know what you have against the backstory, so I am answering one possible objection that you could have with it.
Batfan93, I don't know why you wouldn't freely say that is Batman in BB and TDK.
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Post by gothamknight1992 on Dec 29, 2008 12:27:33 GMT -5
I prefer Chris Nolan's Batman because I think Nolan drew inspiration from The Killing Joke. You see in The Killing Joke the Joker tried to push Commissioner Gordon over the edge and prove it only takes one bad day to drive somebody insane.
But in The Dark Knight the Joker tried to push Harvey Dent over the edge and he succeeded because we all know Harvey Dent becomes Two-Face in the comics. Tim Burton just took the freak accident from The Killing Joke.
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Post by svengali1337 on Dec 29, 2008 14:53:54 GMT -5
I prefer Chris Nolan's Batman because I think Nolan drew inspiration from The Killing Joke. You see in The Killing Joke the Joker tried to push Commissioner Gordon over the edge and prove it only takes one bad day to drive somebody insane. But in The Dark Knight the Joker tried to push Harvey Dent over the edge and he succeeded because we all know Harvey Dent becomes Two-Face in the comics. Tim Burton just took the freak accident from The Killing Joke. I'm sure Nolan was not thinking of the killing joke at all when he make TDK, he has probably never even read it. If anythin Burton has way more experience with the comics then Nolan. [["TKJ was the first comic i ever loved"- Tim Burton.]]
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Post by gothamknight1992 on Dec 29, 2008 15:13:03 GMT -5
If anything Burton has way more experience with the comics than Nolan. [[quote; "The Killing Joke was the first comic book I've ever loved." quote; Tim Burton.]] I disagree because when Nolan was filming Batman Begins he drew inspiration from Batman: Year One, The Long Halloween and The Man Who Falls. Tim Burton never drew any inspiration from Batman: Year One and Year One was actually published before Burton filmed Batman. By the way does anybody know where I can purchase The Man Who Falls?
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Post by svengali1337 on Dec 29, 2008 15:44:21 GMT -5
If anything Burton has way more experience with the comics than Nolan. [[quote; "The Killing Joke was the first comic book I've ever loved." quote; Tim Burton.]] I disagree because when Nolan was filming Batman Begins he drew inspiration from Batman: Year One, The Long Halloween and The Man Who Falls. Tim Burton never drew any inspiration from Batman: Year One and Year One was actually published before Burton filmed Batman. By the way does anybody know where I can purchase The Man Who Falls? First of all thats batman begins, not TDK, and i didn't seen any resemblance to the comics in batman begins. Try amazon.com, its the cheapest place to by graphic novels/comics and has almost all of them.
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Post by batman1973 on Dec 29, 2008 17:28:58 GMT -5
Batman1973, I don't understand how Burton "got the villains right." Are we talking about the characters' motives? Are we talking about the similarity to comics? I don't understand what you mean. I also don't understand why you find the back story to be a joke. What was wrong with it? I know that some fans have problems with movie adaptations in that they do not line up with the comics, but they aren't supposed to. Some changes have to be made to appeal to the general population, not just fans of the comic. And given the amount of different stories, universes, and things like that, there is no possible way to fit everything the comics does into a movie. I do not know what you have against the back story, so I am answering one possible objection that you could have with it. Batfan93, I don't know why you wouldn't freely say that is Batman in BB and TDK. Quite simple. Burton had The Bat's enemy as the Joker, which is comic book correct. Nolan's first disaster had both the Scarecrow and a very pitiful Ra's Al Gul. I'll admit that Heath Ledger played a good Joker in TDK, but he was paired with a poor Batman. Honestly, it's hard to comic fans to watch movies, I guess we actually have the balls to hope that at least one movie director or writer would actually make a comic book movie that's true to the comics.
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Post by snooch2dnooch on Dec 29, 2008 17:49:35 GMT -5
Tim Burton has said on more than one occasion that he dislikes comic books
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Post by Batlaw on Dec 29, 2008 19:55:32 GMT -5
There are elements of both interpretations to favor and enjoy. I like much of each Director's take. Neither though IMO is entirely flawless and neither has wholly represented "MY" Batman (that which I personally would call the "correct" version). Batman is many things to many people.
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Post by svengali1337 on Dec 29, 2008 21:13:54 GMT -5
Batman1973, I don't understand how Burton "got the villains right." Are we talking about the characters' motives? Are we talking about the similarity to comics? I don't understand what you mean. I also don't understand why you find the back story to be a joke. What was wrong with it? I know that some fans have problems with movie adaptations in that they do not line up with the comics, but they aren't supposed to. Some changes have to be made to appeal to the general population, not just fans of the comic. And given the amount of different stories, universes, and things like that, there is no possible way to fit everything the comics does into a movie. I do not know what you have against the back story, so I am answering one possible objection that you could have with it. Batfan93, I don't know why you wouldn't freely say that is Batman in BB and TDK. Quite simple. Burton had The Bat's enemy as the Joker, which is comic book correct. Nolan's first disaster had both the Scarecrow and a very pitiful Ra's Al Gul. I'll admit that Heath Ledger played a good Joker in TDK, but he was paired with a poor Batman. Honestly, it's hard to comic fans to watch movies, I guess we actually have the balls to hope that at least one movie director or writer would actually make a comic book movie that's true to the comics. Wow man, i 100% agree.
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Dec 29, 2008 23:06:28 GMT -5
Quite simple. Burton had The Bat's enemy as the Joker, which is comic book correct. Nolan's first disaster had both the Scarecrow and a very pitiful Ra's Al Gul. I'll admit that Heath Ledger played a good Joker in TDK, but he was paired with a poor Batman. Honestly, it's hard to comic fans to watch movies, I guess we actually have the balls to hope that at least one movie director or writer would actually make a comic book movie that's true to the comics. So it is the sequence of the appearance? Because I think their reasoning for starting with these villains was pretty good. They wanted villains that hadn't been seen before. Given the amount of variation, it is impossible to make a comic book movie true to the comics. Batman was started so long ago, there is hardly any similarity from comic to comic. What is wrong with Nolan's Batman? He actually has a progression, whereas Burton's was a flat character.
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Post by batman1973 on Dec 29, 2008 23:57:53 GMT -5
Character appearance is important to some one who is a fan of The Batman comics. Also Christian Bale's performance of the Batman. The voice was off, and his appearacne very wooden. As Movie Batmans go, Keaton was far more convincing (This is of course my opinion) Keaton had more voice control and more fluid.
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Post by svengali1337 on Dec 30, 2008 0:10:45 GMT -5
It wouldn't be hard at all for a movie to be true to comics. All you would have to do is put someone who knows comics to write the screen play and let a half way decent director shoot the movie. For example: I think Paul Dini who has worked with batman all his life weather it is BTAS, the detective comics, and even video games to brew up a good story line. Have someone to direct like frank miller, who has worked with comics throughout his career and has made some bomb movies. That would be better than Nolan and the guy who wrote the screenplay for ghost rider....
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Post by All Star Batman on Dec 30, 2008 1:17:53 GMT -5
Character appearance is important to some one who is a fan of The Batman comics. Also Christian Bale's performance of the Batman. The voice was off, and his appearacne very wooden. As Movie Batmans go, Keaton was far more convincing (This is of course my opinion) Keaton had more voice control and more fluid. Bale looks more like Bruce though.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Dec 30, 2008 8:34:11 GMT -5
Quite simple. Burton had The Bat's enemy as the Joker, which is comic book correct. Nolan's first disaster had both the Scarecrow and a very pitiful Ra's Al Gul. I'll admit that Heath Ledger played a good Joker in TDK, but he was paired with a poor Batman. Honestly, it's hard to comic fans to watch movies, I guess we actually have the balls to hope that at least one movie director or writer would actually make a comic book movie that's true to the comics. Wow man, i 100% agree. Alright, you two can say how much Ledger's Joker sucked, but he gave an utterly amazing performance. I hate when people do this - take an AMAZING acting performance, and bash it because it "wasnt true to the comics". Well, listen Nolan is going a little deeper. He's making it more realistic. The TDK Joker wa sperfect for its atmosphere, case closed. and also Burton's BR SUCKED. Tim Burton's Batman89 was alright. Batman Returns was the worst peice of sh*t I have ever seen, worse than Batman and Robin BTW and [sarcasm]The Penguin, oh, the Penguin DEFINITELY stayed true to the comics[/sarcasm]
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Post by svengali1337 on Dec 30, 2008 11:58:54 GMT -5
Alright, you two can say how much Ledger's Joker sucked, but he gave an utterly amazing performance. I hate when people do this - take an AMAZING acting performance, and bash it because it "wasnt true to the comics". Well, listen Nolan is going a little deeper. He's making it more realistic. The TDK Joker wa sperfect for its atmosphere, case closed. and also Burton's BR SUCKED. Tim Burton's Batman89 was alright. Batman Returns was the worst peice of sh*t I have ever seen, worse than Batman and Robin BTW and [sarcasm]The Penguin, oh, the Penguin DEFINITELY stayed true to the comics[/sarcasm] I don't think you where reading right... Ledger as joker did a amazing job, it was a spectacular performance. But he was, as batman1973 said, he was paired with a poor batman.
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Post by snooch2dnooch on Dec 30, 2008 14:22:05 GMT -5
Frank Miller direct it? "He's made some bomb movies"? I'm sorry, but I'm laughing at you,svengali1337. Miller sat in a chair next to Robert Rodriguez as RODRIGUEZ directed Sin City. Miller hasn't been involved in movies until his "directorial" debut with THE SPIRIT. have you seen that trash? i did, just so i could rightfully say that i saw and it was by far one of the worst films i have ever seen. In every scene the tone of the movie changed. The entire audience was laughing AT the movie, not with it. I'd be embarrassed for Frank Miller if I didn't despise him so much. So please, join me in saying that Frank Miller has to keep his dirty, untalented paws off of any Batman movie.
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Post by batman1973 on Dec 30, 2008 18:46:14 GMT -5
Character appearance is important to some one who is a fan of The Batman comics. Also Christian Bale's performance of the Batman. The voice was off, and his appearance very wooden. As Movie Batmans go, Keaton was far more convincing (This is of course my opinion) Keaton had more voice control and more fluid. Bale looks more like Bruce though. I'll give you that. But, looks aren't everything. Heath Ledger stole the movie. Bale's performance just wasn't there. And his Batman voice sounded like a poor Dr. Girlfriend impression. Watching Batman '89 again and I realize that in comparison Keaton held his own against Gentleman Jack's Joker.
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Doomsday
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Post by Doomsday on Dec 30, 2008 20:01:22 GMT -5
Alright, you two can say how much Ledger's Joker sucked, but he gave an utterly amazing performance. I hate when people do this - take an AMAZING acting performance, and bash it because it "wasnt true to the comics". Well, listen Nolan is going a little deeper. He's making it more realistic. The TDK Joker wa sperfect for its atmosphere, case closed. and also Burton's BR SUCKED. Tim Burton's Batman89 was alright. Batman Returns was the worst peice of sh*t I have ever seen, worse than Batman and Robin BTW and [sarcasm]The Penguin, oh, the Penguin DEFINITELY stayed true to the comics[/sarcasm] I don't think you where reading right... Ledger as joker did a amazing job, it was a spectacular performance. But he was, as batman1973 said, he was paired with a poor batman. Oh. whoops. Appologies.
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clownprince19
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Post by clownprince19 on Jan 7, 2009 7:49:43 GMT -5
Both are incredible, but I'll rest on Nolan.
Both sets of films have great acting, but Nolans series realism and overall better acting and overall better movies will see it out.
I grew up on Batman(1989) and Returns, they will have a place in my heart but they cannot compare too Begins or TDK. But, I don't think Michelle Pfeiffers Catwoman can be beaten, she was straight up sexy and an amazing performance.
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clownprince1
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Post by clownprince1 on Jan 7, 2009 7:59:17 GMT -5
I was not a fan of Batman Begins and so Burton was still my favorite but after seeing a few films by Nolan and then finally The Dark Knight, I see what a genuis he really is.
I can't wait for the next film...
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Slash
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Post by Slash on Jan 7, 2009 11:44:59 GMT -5
IS THIS A JOKE? Burton all the way. First of all, the actors. Christopher Nolan was restricted to his precious A-list, while Time Burton took chances and hired the BEST Batman, Michael Keaton. Sorry Bale, maybe you'll get the voice right within the next 5 sequels. Secondly, Nolan was basically restricting his creativity when he made the stupid idea to make Batman MORE REALISTIC. C'mon guys, IT'S BATMAN. Burton had the right approach, he even included the Batwing! One of the coolest moments in all the Batman films was his first appearance with the Batwing. Thirdly, the car. Burtons looked cool, but Nolan's was an 'effin tank... 'nuff said. NOW to the villians... In Batman Begins, I really only cared about the Scarecrow, because he's the most recognizable to me, but it took almost the whole movie to make him into the villian, and there was no true fight with Batman in the end (although he DID get into a fight with Rachel's stun gun in the end... AND LOST)! Ras Al Ghul was better though. Liam Neeson was probably the only A-list cast that was justified. In the Dark Knight, Two-Face was the best representation since BTAS, but I didn't like how he got his face burned... He just randomly caught on fire! Now to the Jokers... Jack was legendary. Casted by Batman creator, Bob Kane, I can say with confidence, his performance was flawless. Now with Nolan's series... Why did they choose Heath Ledger? Did they really need to depend on fangirls so much that they just chose the star of Brokeback Mountains? His acting surprised me. I got the genuine sense that he was giving the role his best, but I thought the studio already messed up the character too much... First of all, he's too serious, not "funny" enough, secondly, he OBVIOUSLY has fake makeup on, thirdly they failed terribly at explaining his backstory, and fourth, who cares about the scars?! Although they are both #1 and #2, I thing the overall theme of Burton's movies were what made his the best.
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Post by snooch2dnooch on Jan 7, 2009 14:03:59 GMT -5
It's called an INTERPRETATION, moron.
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Post by /\/\att on Jan 7, 2009 14:18:13 GMT -5
It's called an INTERPRETATION, moron. Guys, calling each other names isn't acceptable here. We're talking about Batman, not politics! lol. Now, as for my opinions... To the above poster...sorry man, but Burton was actually way more into the A-list cast than Nolan. Bale was a virtual nobody, save American Psycho, and Heath Ledger..well lets just say he was vastly less known than oh, I dunno, Jack Nicholson! Danny DeVito! Michelle Pfeiffer! I mean, c'mon. Burton makes great movies. I'm an avid Tim Burton fan myself. I love his work..I love his vision. I do not, however, LOVE his Batman films. They should be called "Tim Burton presents: Batman", becuause its strictly his vision. Nolan, on the other hand, while not perfect, has taken way more from the comics and accepted bat-lore with his films. Are the movies perfect? No. Bale's voice, btw, was amplified in editing to be more growly..a big mistake as far as most fans are concerned. In the first movie it wasn't so ..cookie monster. I enjoy both directors for what they are. The only one I don't enjoy, is Mr. Schumacher.
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