|
Post by ThatBlockoGuy on Jun 18, 2005 18:16:18 GMT -5
The movie was beyond sensational! Bale IS Bruce/Batman! I still can't stop smiling. One question: was Watanabe (hope I spelled it right) Ra's who then transferred his consciousness to Ducard's body or was Ducard actually Ra's all along? If it's the former then it might make sense that Bruce let him "die" knowing that he had probably made arrangements to reincarnate himself. Just a thought.
|
|
TheKingpun
Legions of Gotham Police Officer
Posts: 215
|
Post by TheKingpun on Jun 18, 2005 18:41:25 GMT -5
I think that Ducard was Ra's Al Ghul all along. A few people think that Ken Watanabe is actually Ubu. The reason why I think Ducard was the real Ra's all along is because he was always in charge. They didn't really have anyone taking very many orders from Ken Watanabe. I think Bruce figured "Ra's" was already dead when the debris fell on him. That glazed over look was a pretty good indicator. If you think about Ra's in the comics, it would be much more fitting to use dual identities. Well anyway that's just what I think. The convienience to making it vague is so that you can pretty much have it be whatever you want it to be.
|
|
|
Post by Arkham16 on Jun 18, 2005 19:53:54 GMT -5
I believe Ducard was Ra's all along. It works better that way IMO. And i think that if there were the whole switching bodies thing then Goyer and Nolan would deffinately been smart enough to address it better.
BTW i love the idea that the first Ra's was Ubu. I had felt that something was missing without an Ubu.
|
|
|
Post by ThatBlockoGuy on Jun 19, 2005 13:20:03 GMT -5
I just read through the Scholastic Batman Begins picture book and it states that Ducard is actually Ra's...or at least that Ra's is immortal.
|
|
|
Post by HUSH on Jun 19, 2005 13:57:23 GMT -5
I believe that the man Bruce knew as Ducard was always the real Ra's, and that Watanabe's character was Ubu, or someone similar.
|
|
|
Post by BatmAngelus on Jun 19, 2005 15:02:48 GMT -5
Ken Watanabe's character is definitely an intelligent version of Ubu. The bald head and red robes are pretty much what Ubu wore in his first appearance. The Asian Man at the party is another decoy replacement, or another "Ubu". In the comics, Ra's has always had to keep replacing one Ubu after another, so I guess that Batman Begins's version of Ubu would be simply a Ra's decoy. And Ubu did serve as a decoy of Ra's in his first appearance. Batman arrives in the headquarters in the Himalayas and encounters a man in a demon-like ceremonial mask posing as The Demon's Head, but Batman immediately takes the mask away, revealing Ubu. Check out the Ra's Al Ghul comic on the official site to see it! Anyways, for comparison, check out the bald guys with the red and green robes: Anyways, I really hope Liam returns in a sequel as Ra's Al Ghul, with Talia as the love interest. I've heard that Talia is mentioned in the novelization along with Ra's's hopes that Bruce will mate with her. Since we know what the true Ra's looks like, I think the perfect Talia would be none other than Kate Beckinsale. It looks more natural that Kate would be playing the daughter of Liam Neeson, instead of other fan choices, like Monica Belluci and Mia Maestro. She's worked with Bale before on not one, but TWO movies (Prince of Jutland, which also had Tom Wilkinson, and Laurel Canyon). She's a decent actress who could easily bring the BTAS version of Talia to life. In terms of looks, just compare:
|
|
|
Post by gotham95 on Jun 19, 2005 15:29:13 GMT -5
Since we know what the true Ra's looks like, I think the perfect Talia would be none other than Kate Beckinsale. I agree. I always thought Kate would be an excellent Talia or Catwoman!
|
|
|
Post by MuksC on Jun 19, 2005 18:24:14 GMT -5
in my opinion, with everyone pushing for realism for this movie, it wouldn't be wise to have the first option (Ra's transferring his consciousness to Ducard's body).
itr makes much more sense to have 2 people, with 1 just pretending to be the other.
|
|
|
Post by Batdan on Jun 19, 2005 19:22:12 GMT -5
There is no question in my mind that Ducard was Ra's the whole time. Any other explanation makes little to no sense.
I'm not buying the Ubu bit, either. It's fanboy wishful thinking.
I'm not trying to be harsh but this film bent over backward to keep it real. Let it be.
|
|
|
Post by Batlaw on Jun 19, 2005 19:47:07 GMT -5
There is no question in my mind that Ducard was Ra's the whole time. Any other explanation makes little to no sense. I'm not buying the Ubu bit, either. It's fanboy wishful thinking. I totally agree W/ you about the Ra's/Dukard comment, but I done see any reason why it would be such a stretch for K. Watanabe to have been "Ubu"? It makes perfect sense to me and works just fine (especially as a fanboy nod. He has to be someone, and someone Ra's/Liam finds "worthy". Ubu has never been anything more than bassically Ra's right hand man and "body gaurd" (which is essentially what Watanabe was). So whats unrealsitic about his name being Ubu? IMO I like the idea. And BTW did I misunderstand the B-day party scene / dialog between Ra's/Liam and Bruce/Bale?... It helped make the movie for me! Bruce: "Impossible. You're dead!" Ra's/Liam: "Perhaps I'm imortal Mr. Wayne?".
|
|
|
Post by MuksC on Jun 23, 2005 11:25:45 GMT -5
as far as i can remember, the woman introducing Bruce to the faker Ra's said "i hope i'm pronouncing it correctly, Ra's Al Ghul", then Bruce says "you can't be, i watched him die", them Liam says "maybe he's immortal?".
|
|
|
Post by ThatBlockoGuy on Jun 23, 2005 21:11:49 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by HUSH on Jun 23, 2005 22:04:45 GMT -5
LOL!!!
|
|
|
Post by Arkham16 on Jun 23, 2005 22:13:45 GMT -5
80's and 90's...that always comes to my mind when i hear ubu. Watch the end of Spin City to hear it. I hero you for remembering the good times.
|
|
|
Post by thedarkestnight on Jun 23, 2005 22:14:16 GMT -5
as far as i can remember, the woman introducing Bruce to the faker Ra's said "i hope i'm pronouncing it correctly, Ra's Al Ghul", then Bruce says "you can't be, i watched him die", them Liam says "maybe he's immortal?". Accually Ducard says, "But is Ra's Al Ghul(reffering to himself) immortal; or are his methods super-natural?.." Then Bruce realizes and says. "Or cheap tricks to consume your true identity Ra's( to Ducard)." Then Ducard bows in acknowledgement that he is Ra's. What crossed my mind however was that maybe Ra's Al Ghul is a symbol just like Batman. After one Ra's dies the second in command takes over as Ra's. Just like when Bruce dies he will surely have someone to take over as Batman.
|
|
|
Post by HUSH on Jun 23, 2005 22:34:32 GMT -5
What crossed my mind however was that maybe Ra's Al Ghul is a symbol just like Batman. After one Ra's dies the second in command takes over as Ra's. Just like when Bruce dies he will surely have someone to take over as Batman. That could be, but even so, I'm convinced that the Watanabe character was never Ra' al Ghul, and that Ducard always was. Anything else makes the twist less shocking.
|
|
Dr. Crane
Legions of Gotham Police Officer
To conquer fear you must BECOME fear
Posts: 146
|
Post by Dr. Crane on Jun 23, 2005 23:23:46 GMT -5
What crossed my mind however was that maybe Ra's Al Ghul is a symbol just like Batman. After one Ra's dies the second in command takes over as Ra's. Just like when Bruce dies he will surely have someone to take over as Batman. That could be, but even so, I'm convinced that the Watanabe character was never Ra' al Ghul, and that Ducard always was. Anything else makes the twist less shocking. I agree completely. This seems to be the jist that most everyone I know got, so I assume it was intended that way.
|
|
|
Post by MuksC on Jun 24, 2005 10:32:42 GMT -5
so do we take it to mean Ducard was Ra's all along then?
this makes sense.
|
|
Violator
Legions of Gotham Police Officer
Posts: 217
|
Post by Violator on Jun 24, 2005 12:10:26 GMT -5
What crossed my mind however was that maybe Ra's Al Ghul is a symbol just like Batman. After one Ra's dies the second in command takes over as Ra's. Just like when Bruce dies he will surely have someone to take over as Batman. Thats what I was thinking too. To maintain the realism in the movie they cant actually say that Ra's is immortal, but the title of "The Demon's Head" is. I believe they did say that the League of Shadows has been around for centuries, always lead by a Ra's, Im sure. Im still pretty sure that Neeson was Ra's all along and that Wantanabe was just a stand in (perhaps Ubu) and not the preceding Ra's.
|
|