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Post by BatmAngelus on Feb 16, 2006 19:05:26 GMT -5
Begins- I've never really cared for "Nice coat." I thought it ruined the dramatic mood. Even though it almost blatantly rips off Burton's version of the scene (grabbing the criminal by the coat lapels, the dialogue, a slow tempo version of the Batman theme following the line), the scene had a pretty serious and triumphant feel. The "Nice coat" line brings a small camp factor. It's nowhere near as bad as what went on in the Schumacher films, but I think they could've taken out the homeless man character entirely. I just didn't get the point. Also, I didn't like the pure coincidence that the same hobo that Bruce Wayne met seven whole years ago manages to be in the same exact spot that Batman first appeared (and not noticing much until just the right time...).
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Post by All Star Batman on Feb 16, 2006 19:14:51 GMT -5
I liked the "Nice coat" line. It was kind of funny.
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Post by funkybat on Feb 21, 2006 0:51:25 GMT -5
Yeah,I liked that line too, I think a bit of humor is good for batman movies, Just as long as it's not overdone and made lame and campy like B&R which I can't see ever happening in Nolan's world.
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Post by Jack-Ups on Feb 21, 2006 11:10:20 GMT -5
Yeah I liked it and It dident do any harm to it!The film picked up loads of awards in film mags,and thats including the coat guy!
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Post by Batlaw on Feb 21, 2006 12:04:35 GMT -5
As far as anything from Begins, the "nice coat" bit wasnt too terrible. However; each scene with the little boy is especially "cringe" worthy to me. Very forced, cliche, and hard to swallow. Totally sucked me right outa the movie.
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Post by Jack-Ups on Feb 21, 2006 12:11:09 GMT -5
I know what you mean the boy wasnt a good actor I mean why would a detective give a boy a piece of machinery which costs a $1000 proberly!
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Post by Batlaw on Feb 21, 2006 12:13:14 GMT -5
For "Forever" there were ultimately several lines that could be listed here, but for my money I vote: "I'll get drive thru"... the single most gratuitous marketiing ploy ever! for me that was the begining of the end so to speak. where the franchise began to pay more service and attention to product placement, licensing, tie-ins and essentially anything and everything "back end" instead of whats "up front" and on screen. Like Kevin Smith said about the past Superman movie restarts... "make and sell all the damn toys you want, but you can still tell a good story / make a good honorable movie too"!.
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Post by Batlaw on Feb 21, 2006 12:21:34 GMT -5
I know what you mean the boy wasnt a good actor I mean why would a detective give a boy a piece of machinery which costs a $1000 proberly! lol that too... not to mention wasnt it a piece of exclusive WayneTech? at any rate, the kid's delivery was soooo weak and the scenes / dialog as a whole were just so blatent and served NO purpose almost other than to deliberately BE silly? I mean, I suppose I get what they intended, but like I said, its so cliche now I have a hard time believing the wirter/directer etc. actually took it and meant it seriously? Shouldnt the kid have been frightened of Batman? (not even counting AFTER being fear gassed lol) but before?
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Post by Jack-Ups on Feb 21, 2006 12:51:36 GMT -5
Lol, when the kid,said ...'Know one at school will beileve me'I laugh itf batman gave him a weapon by accident and the little red button was pressed, LOCAL GOTHAM NEWS-SCHOOL DAMAGED BY BAT STYLE EXPLOSION!lol
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Post by Jack-Ups on Feb 21, 2006 14:07:33 GMT -5
Oh! Dont forget the bit in batman forever where batman jumps off the police roof 77stories down and he lands really slowly in his Batcar,and I cant even remeber the stupid line he says after that!
B&R where the mad scientist ,is crazy and the lighting affects are so bad ,flashing green and red! What ever happened to that scientist? Oh yeah!He became lex luthors dad in Smallville!LOL
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Post by The Dark Knight on Feb 25, 2006 20:26:16 GMT -5
Hated the little kid "You're him arent you?" Gosh It really made me sick of how bad the acting was. "Tould ya he would come" Very cliche, ESPECIALLY for a Batman movie. Nice Coat line didnt add anything to the movie nor take anything away from it
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Post by BatmAngelus on Feb 26, 2006 13:58:42 GMT -5
To be honest, I didn't find the Narrows Kid as bad simply because I recognized that it was trying to make a point that Batman is seen by a hero in the eyes of the innocent rather than a symbol of fear. Nolan added that aspect and I think he was probably inspired by the Dennis O'Neil story in which a bunch of kids speculate what Batman looks like. When they finally see him...they're not afraid at all since the costume does not "strike fear in the innocent."
But the execution was off, especially in the dialogue. The kid didn't need that many lines.
With "Nice Coat," I just didn't see the point at all other than just to be silly and I'm surprised Nolan didn't cut that out of Goyer's draft. The only thing that I could see as the possible meaning behind it is that everything is going full circle and the rich kid who got kicked out of Falcone's club has returned as a figure of justice...but we didn't need the same exact hobo from seven years ago to force that down our throats.
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Feb 28, 2006 22:13:38 GMT -5
I just watched Begins again today and I noticed that the kid is necessary for Rachael to be in the Narrows. I think the only reason she is still there is to show the chaos from a familiar character. The kid is necessary for the "fire breathing horse" to appear. I thought the kid acted better than some of Katie Holme's scenes. Where she tells off Crane in Arkham, I thought that was a horrible bit of acting she did. Luckily, Murphy's response in great. Cillian Murphy RULES!!
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Post by MuksC on Mar 5, 2006 9:28:34 GMT -5
Oh! Dont forget the bit in batman forever where batman jumps off the police roof 77stories down and he lands really slowly in his Batcar,and I cant even remeber the stupid line he says after that! he had just had a false alarm call to the Batsignal, that Chase had lit up, and she is trying to woo him, so when he jumps down into his car, he says "women!", then fires his afterburners. i actually liked that bit. but i didn't like the bit before it, when she makes comments about his rubber suit, he says "try a fireman, less to take off". do firemen actually wear rubber suits? wouldn't that be dangerous in a hot firey situation? about the hobo with the coat in Begins, you do realise he's the same guy who Bruce trades coats with when he gets thrown out of Falcone's bar? apologies if i'm stating the obvious. the hobo makes Bruce give him the coat, instead of burning it, as Bruce was going to do, as he did with his wallet and ID. but the hobo says "that's a nice coat" (obviously, as Bruce is very rich, so it will be a high-quality coat). so when he comes back as batman, he recognises the hobo still has the coat he traded him 7 years ago, so makes the "nice coat" comment. i thought it worked quite nicely, although it was a bit of a huuuuge coincidence that the hobo is at the exact place batman first shows up, but i can forgive Nolan for that. the worst thing in Begins is the cop who asks "at least tell me what it looks like" during the tumbler chase, because we already saw him on the rooftop ordering batman to turn of the engines, so he has no reason to ask what it looks like. that was a very bad piece of editing, you'd think someone would have noticed the continuity error.
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Post by BatmAngelus on Mar 5, 2006 15:37:27 GMT -5
about the hobo with the coat in Begins, you do realise he's the same guy who Bruce trades coats with when he gets thrown out of Falcone's bar? apologies if i'm stating the obvious. As I said before, I got the "joke." I just think he was a completely pointless addition in both of the scenes he was in- moreso than the Narrows Kid. No idea why someone on the crew wasn't paying attention to the car chase. I've also heard that the cop who says, "Coming right up on his butt" and gets his car totaled, appears again on the freeway when the cops are looking for the Batmobile (after Batman turns off the lights). Two sets of twins working in the police department, perhaps?
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Sileas
Legions Of Gothamite
Posts: 92
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Post by Sileas on Mar 5, 2006 18:41:21 GMT -5
thanks for resurrecting this thread! the "thurkith" bit made me laugh out loud too! if we still had heroes, that person'd get em! but other than that word, i didn't hear a lisp from kilmer. in real life, just in a tv interview i saw, his voice sounds kinda hoarse to me (but i guess he smokes, so that might be why. idiot.....) i would give worst moments from B&R, but as i've said in other threads, I only saw it once, in the theater, and will not waste my time/money on it again. I think the "nice coat" comment was one of the things they threw in to try to add some humor/lightness to the movie. This was probably in anticipation of comments like "too dark, too realistic, coulda used some candy/lightness somewhere". they were trying to fend em off in advance. i liked kilmer in the role, actually but i'm also not a hard-core batman fan. but one line he said that i thought came off kinda wimpy was when he and alfred figure out the riddler's identity towards the end, and at the end of the scene he says something like "stickley's suicide was obviously a computer-generated forgery". he just sounds....like he's quietly reciting the words to himself, and i though there should have been some anger or frustration there. actually...another line that coulda used more emotional definition was when he talks to the riddler after the mind thing is destroyed, and he's explaining why he had to save both of them. especially the first two words "poor edward." alas, poor yorick. ho hum.
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Post by MuksC on Mar 6, 2006 13:12:36 GMT -5
@ BatmAngelus,
I think they added the hobo to show that the man was a hobo, then 7 years later, he is still in the same situation, the city is still in a poor state, things are as bad as ever, giving justification for a Batman type of character to exist, to try to clean it up.
but also on the more base level, the hobo felt it was a nice coat when he first got it, so Bruce is just being polite to him, by complimenting him on it. a few kinds words can make a lot of difference to someone in a dire situation like him.
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Post by BatmAngelus on Mar 6, 2006 19:54:50 GMT -5
I think they added the hobo to show that the man was a hobo, then 7 years later, he is still in the same situation, the city is still in a poor state, things are as bad as ever, giving justification for a Batman type of character to exist, to try to clean it up. Alright, I concede that he did have a purpose, lol. However, there are other characters and events that represent the same thing. Falcone still the major crime boss with Rachel and her boss still trying to get at him, and failing. The decrepit and rotting look of the city. Plus, the new forms of corruption we see. Dr. Crane. Mr. Earle. Detective Flass. My problem with the scene is simply that we've got this dark, serious, and triumphant scene...and then we get a rather (lame, IMO) joke thrown in there. It just felt really out of place to me. There were better moments of humor that worked in which the jokes were actually funny (to me, at least) and didn't detract from the situation (i.e. "What is the point of all those push-ups if you can't even lift a bloody log."). I suppose that if I found the homeless man absolutely necessary for the story, they could've used the scene in the original script in which Bruce poses as a homeless man to get the picture of Judge Faden and the girl at a limo. The driver pushes Bruce away and the homeless man, wearing Bruce's jacket, tells the driver to leave Bruce alone. Not only does the homeless man serve his purpose as representing how things haven't changed, but it also simply fills in the plot point on the "leverage" Batman gave to Rachel.
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Post by The Dark Knight on Mar 6, 2006 21:49:46 GMT -5
I really dont think the message that was trying to be conceived was about the city's poor condition, I still believe it was just something Nolan tried to put in for a little witty line everyone would remember
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Post by BatmAngelus on Mar 6, 2006 21:59:48 GMT -5
^ Indeed, there were other and much more effective representations of the city's decay.
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Post by MuksC on Mar 7, 2006 13:44:39 GMT -5
well we'll have to agree to disagree i suppose I agree it was bad for Batman to give the annoying Narrows kid his telescope gadget. he could have just given him $5 and told him to go to Toys R Us to buy a plastic replica, he's got enough little pouches on his utility belt, you'd think he would carry some loose change...
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Mar 7, 2006 22:35:17 GMT -5
I would say that Batman was originally going to give him one of his Batman shruiken, but that would have been irresponsible to give a kid a weapon like that. I don't know this, it is purely speculation.
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SPOILED
Gotham Tourist
SPOILED
Posts: 27
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Post by SPOILED on Mar 8, 2006 0:48:14 GMT -5
Can I just say...does anyone else notice Batman's head wobble from side to side at the end of Batmnan Forever...you know the bit where B & R run with the batsignal behind them? Terrible. And turning Barbara Gordon into some rebellious relative of Alfred in B&R? I weep at the thought!
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Post by Batlaw on Mar 8, 2006 11:24:33 GMT -5
Can I just say...does anyone else notice Batman's head wobble from side to side at the end of Batmnan Forever...you know the bit where B & R run with the batsignal behind them? Terrible. And turning Barbara Gordon into some rebellious relative of Alfred in B&R? I weep at the thought! Oh Yes, the wobble ears is a long standing favorite in these type threads. One of my all time most cringingly annoying moments (although stil a cool scene at least conceptually). I understand how it could be and likely was a situation they couldnt "fix" costume wise, but for that scene (being all silhouette Etc) they couldve put rods in the ears or something? As for B+R, transforming Babs into Alfred's Neice is the least of the movie's problems and hardly the most offensive or objectionable thing about it LOL
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Post by enchantaurora on Mar 9, 2006 19:34:22 GMT -5
I really dont think the message that was trying to be conceived was about the city's poor condition, I still believe it was just something Nolan tried to put in for a little witty line everyone would remember I really think it was just to show Bruce/Batman coming full circle, keeping his vow, doing what he said he would do, crap like that. A sort of completion, you know. Actually I liked the line *ducks*.
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Post by All Star Batman on Mar 10, 2006 21:39:02 GMT -5
This is just me, but the Dick Grayson in the Schumacher movies actually reminded me of Jason Todd. Think about it. He was way arogant, full of himself, and never listens to Batman. That sounds more like Todd than Grayson.
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Post by enchantaurora on Mar 11, 2006 10:38:20 GMT -5
I'd definitely have to agree with that. Interesting angle. Do you think that Schuumacher planned that or just bad writing/research/whatever?
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Post by The Dark Knight on Mar 11, 2006 11:58:05 GMT -5
well we'll have to agree to disagree i suppose I agree it was bad for Batman to give the annoying Narrows kid his telescope gadget. he could have just given him $5 and told him to go to Toys R Us to buy a plastic replica, he's got enough little pouches on his utility belt, you'd think he would carry some loose change...
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Post by The Dark Knight on Mar 11, 2006 11:59:57 GMT -5
I thought this line was stupid and funny "Holy Metal Rocks Batman!" From Batman Forever when they are trying to get into Riddler's tower and he mentions it as a parody, but actually talking about how "there are lots of holes" I got a chuckle and a sneer
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Post by ??The Riddler?? on Mar 11, 2006 14:06:06 GMT -5
I got a good laugh watching 'Batman Forever' when Twoface and Riddler are playing Battle Ship, it was hilarious of my opinion.
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