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Post by Batman Prevails on Dec 6, 2005 2:08:57 GMT -5
I voted for Batman Forever. It stays true to the comic books. This Batman does not (deliberately) kill plus I think Val Kilmer is the best Batman next to Bale. Even though Gotham is a bit neon, it still looks dark and believable to certain degree. I also like the design of the Batcave, suits and vehicles. The only downside of the movie is that Two-Face was too camp and more like a token baddie than a tragic character but apart from that the film has a great and well-written plot. This film offers an insight into Batman's psyche, what drives and motivates him.
Batman (89) would have been the best film but I despise a murdering Batman.
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Post by arkhaminmate on Dec 6, 2005 7:43:39 GMT -5
Although Batman Forever was very true to the comics of the mid 90s. I have to say Batman ('89) Tim Burton is my favorite director. Plus, it was so dark! Micheal Keaton was phycotic, so phycotic I could actually see him jumping off buildings in a giant Bat suit. The casting of The Joker was great! Jack Nicholson looks exactly like the origional Bob Kane Joker. I would have said Batman Forever, but Batman takes it by just a few minor points.
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Post by HUSH on Dec 6, 2005 12:32:51 GMT -5
It's a close one between B89 and Forever, but B89 takes the cake. Forever is good, but there are just too many Shumacher-isms for it to be the best movie in the original franchise. Plus it had a campy Two-Face, and I didn't like Robin(way too old, wasn't crazy about the actor). Batman '89 wasn't perfect either, but it is very fun to watch, imo, and is sure dark enough, although not the same kind of dark as Begins. But it's the best of the four, imo.
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Post by All Star Batman on Dec 6, 2005 19:11:51 GMT -5
I voted Forever. More action and more character, despite the Bat-nipples.
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Post by BatmAngelus on Dec 6, 2005 21:46:56 GMT -5
This Batman does not (deliberately) kill I would argue that his trick on Two-Face was just as deliberate as using the bat bola on Joker and the gargoyle at the end of the first film. Other than that, I would agree that Kilmer didn't deliberately kill criminals. For me, it would probably be a tie between Batman 1989 and Batman Returns. I grew up with Batman 1989 and I love the "read between the lines" kind of approach to the character as well as protraying Bruce Wayne as more of a realistic ordinary man with problems. To be honest, I found Keaton's Wayne more interesting to watch than the other version of the Wayne character. This is a man who we can believe exists. He isn't acting when he's at parties and such, he is simply himself, but very socially detached. Upon study of his date with Vicki Vale, one can see how desperate he attempts to make a connection with her, but it just doesn't seem right. I also like the Jack Napier origin for Joker and find it much better than the comics. Jack Napier's vain nature perfectly led into Joker's various schemes, from attacking cosmetics to destroying works of art. Plus, there are scenes that are simply comic book pages coming to life. Scenes from Batman's first appearance, Batman's silent drive in the Batmobile with his girlfriend, and the attacking Batwing on the parade were very much derived from the original Bob Kane comics. Story points, such as Vicki's love story with Bruce and Joker's Smilex plot, bear similarities to the Silver St. Cloud love story and "The Laughing Fish" plot from Steve Englehart's run in the seventies. Check those comics out, you may be surprised at the similarities. Batman Returns has got to be my favorite Christmas movie, lol. I find the interpretation of Oswald Cobblepot/The Penguin to be the most interesting version of the character. The tragic background, from being abandoned by his parents to being raised by the circus (yes, the circus, not penguins to contrary belief). The Biblical-like angle of his primary plan to kill the first born of Gotham. His twisted similarities to Bruce Wayne, which clearly inspired by Matsuda Penguin in The Batman. Catwoman was a bit too weird for my tastes, but Michelle Pfieffer does an excellent job. The ending is particularly haunting and Elfman outdid himself on his outstanding musical score, with two very haunting villain themes to accompany the trademark Batman theme. A fine, albeit misunderstood, film.
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Post by MuksC on Dec 7, 2005 15:41:19 GMT -5
it won't let me vote, but i'd go for BM'89.
although i was only about 8 years old when it came out, and never actually saw it till i was maybe 13 or 14, i think it was the best of the 4 previous movies.
its the only one that every now and then, i really feel like i want to watch, and get a kick from watching it.
never really liked Returns, Forever was quite good(I liked Kilmer as Wayne and Batman), and B&R was terrible.
I read an article somewhere asking why nobody ever asks why Max Schreck was even in Returns, what the point of him being in it was. but that the original plot may have been to have him as Penguins real brother, and they find out somewhere in the movie that they are brothers, but whether it was even filmed like this or if there's any truth in it, I don't know.
i didn't like the whole notion that Penguin is just 'born' like that, to a normal family. maybe some sort of accident could transform a normal person so that their fingers are fused together like Penguins hands, or something like that, but to just be born like that is too wacky for me. i fast forward a lot of the Penguins scenes in Returns.
and about Napier killing Bruce's parents then turning into the Joker, is a bit too convenient for my liking. apparently, they only made Napier/Joker be the killer to justify and explain the huge age difference between him and Bruce/Batman.
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Post by Batman Prevails on Dec 8, 2005 8:48:54 GMT -5
and about Napier killing Bruce's parents then turning into the Joker, is a bit too convenient for my liking. apparently, they only made Napier/Joker be the killer to justify and explain the huge age difference between him and Bruce/Batman. I think they just came with that so that they could throw in the "I am your product and you are my product."-line. Because of that eye-for-an-eye notion the film feels like a modern Grimm tale. I also heard that Max Shreck was also intended to be Harvey Dent...hence the politcal plot. The explosions in the end would lead towards Dent's disfigurement.
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Dec 11, 2005 19:28:48 GMT -5
i didn't like the whole notion that Penguin is just 'born' like that, to a normal family. maybe some sort of accident could transform a normal person so that their fingers are fused together like Penguins hands, or something like that, but to just be born like that is too wacky for me. I'm in a Genetics class. After what I have seen in there, Penguin's abnormalities don't seem that unusual. For instance, there is one condition where that persons body attacks the muscle. Over time, the muscle becomes bone. I am not making this stuff up. As far as my favorite from the anthology, I go with Batman Forever. It has my Robin and Riddler in it. These two are some of my favorites. I never have cared to much for Penguin. Catwoman is actually more appealing to me after hitting puberty. Batman '89 has bad animation sequences and costume.
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Post by MuksC on Dec 12, 2005 12:32:55 GMT -5
yeah i watched a documentary about a little girl whose muscle is turning into bone so i believe you on that.
but to be born as a 'penguin' just randomly like that, then to be raised in the sewer and eat raw fish like a real penguin, is just a bit too stupid for me.
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Dec 12, 2005 12:56:44 GMT -5
yeah i watched a documentary about a little girl whose muscle is turning into bone so i believe you on that. but to be born as a 'penguin' just randomly like that, then to be raised in the sewer and eat raw fish like a real penguin, is just a bit too stupid for me. Coincidence is very important to a movie. You can pick apart any movie as so much "coincidence". The perfect example is the Lord of the Rings trilogy. I watched it the other night and picked out all the coincidence. It was a lot. Some were just for the movie, but others were in the book as well.
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Post by All Star Batman on Dec 14, 2005 18:26:48 GMT -5
I don't know if you guys heard about this, but when Burton was planning Batman Returns, he was going to have Marlon Wayans play Robin, and Robin was going to be a already existing hero Batman calls upon for help. I asked this about Schumacher, but did Burton read the comics either?
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Post by BatmAngelus on Dec 14, 2005 19:23:03 GMT -5
Robin wasn't exactly an existing hero, at least not in the draft that I read.
He was going to be a teenager whose circus parents were killed long ago and works as a garage mechanic. When Batman's Batmobile is taken under Penguin's control, Robin is the one to help him out. (and, from what I heard at BOF, in an even earlier version, the Graysons were part of the Red Triangle Circus before the Aquatic Bird Boy, a.k.a. Penguin, grew up and took over the gang. The Graysons were killed, but Dick survived and helped Batman out of wanting revenge on Penguin).
But yeah, Marlon Wayans was in consideration. Not sure who's idea it was- I'll have to see the documentaries on the Batman Returns DVD if I get that for Christmas. But I can imagine Burton wanting to go through with it to emphasize that this Robin would be different from the Burt Ward version.
And yes, Burton did read comics: The '30's Bob Kane and Bill Finger comics- some moments from the first film were pretty much lifted from these and placed in a better context. The macabre and creepy setting of the second film was also influenced from these. The '70s Dennis O'Neil and Neal Adams comics, although the Englehart-Rogers run was more influential on the first Batman film's story. The Killing Joke is a comic that Burton cites a lot during his commentary and mentioned during the documentaries. And, of course, The Dark Knight Returns was influential on Burton. Burton showed TDKR to Danny Elfman and Michael Keaton to provide them a direction in their movie score and acting performance, respectively. This is shown on the B89 Anthology DVD and in the Batman: The Complete History book by Les Daniels.
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TheKingpun
Legions of Gotham Police Officer
Posts: 215
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Post by TheKingpun on Dec 14, 2005 20:31:51 GMT -5
Holy Batman Forever's Winning Batman?
That suprises me. Anyway I picked it because the same old "batman was the main character" excuse, but also it was just all around the most heroic of the batfilms. Watching all of them again, there's very few moments that I would cheer for Michael Keaton in. And I haven't outgrown the "Robin is so cool" stage of development so it's got that going for it too. I really disliked Twoface and the neon lights like many people, but every other character was great and the lights were a really superficial flaw.
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the batman
Legions Of Gothamite
the batman is HERE
Posts: 69
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Post by the batman on Dec 16, 2005 9:52:01 GMT -5
i like batman & robin because it has my favourate villain in it is Mr Freeze
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Post by Dark Nightwing on Dec 16, 2005 15:16:18 GMT -5
i like batman & robin because it has my favourate villain in it is Mr Freeze I had a friend say that exact same thing about B&R because of Freeze. I just thought that he was crazy.
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Post by Batman Prevails on Dec 17, 2005 7:32:27 GMT -5
i like batman & robin because it has my favourate villain in it is Mr Freeze Yeah...but I wouldn't vote for Forever because it featured Two-Face, which is one of my faves. Schwarzenegger's terrible acting and the one-liners butchered the character. You have to give Schuhmacher some credit though, "Heart of Ice" was part of his research and the adopted a few things. Unfortunately not too many. I personally hated Freeze's suit in the movie. Just as Schumacher noted 'it's Terminator meets Fridge'.
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Post by jasontodd2 on Dec 18, 2005 21:48:52 GMT -5
I voted Batman Returns. I liked the tone of the film (Better than 89) there was alot more action, and more of a plot and storyline to the film. The Bat-suit made more sense and I actually liked the armour look and the covering over the abdominal area. Catwoman & Penquin were really cool, and Christopher Walken did a fantastic job. I think overall this was one of the better casts in the Batfilms history!
Batman Returns unlike Batman Forever & Batman & Robin seemed to be able to do well with multiple villians, giving them equal time with there stories and not rushing it like they did with the other films...
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Post by BatmAngelus on Dec 21, 2005 19:02:49 GMT -5
^ Hero for praising my favorite Christmas film ;D.
I thought the storyline was much tighter in the second film. It's a shame that we couldn't see Burton's continuation and resolution of that story, although Forever did a fine job in explaining the development of Batman's character since the first film.
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Post by Eric on Dec 21, 2005 20:46:41 GMT -5
I had to vote 89. To this day i can watch that movie and get instantly transported to summer 1989 with all the hype, and to me that was part of the whole movie experience. The movie had an "atmosphere" about it that i dont think any of the following movies has been able to replicate.
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Post by jasontodd2 on Dec 21, 2005 23:51:34 GMT -5
^ Hero for praising my favorite Christmas film ;D. I thought the storyline was much tighter in the second film. It's a shame that we couldn't see Burton's continuation and resolution of that story, although Forever did a fine job in explaining the development of Batman's character since the first film. Thank you, hero right back at cha... And you made me realize something about Batman Returns it is a Christmas movie isn't it? I have always looked at it as just a Batman film, but there is more to Returns...
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Sileas
Legions Of Gothamite
Posts: 92
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Post by Sileas on Dec 24, 2005 16:15:26 GMT -5
i voted, forever, but i have a biased opinion. *blush* i shouldn't even BE voting! i'm lookin forward to seeing the cut scenes of forever. gotta rig my computer
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Post by The Dark Knight on Dec 24, 2005 19:33:12 GMT -5
Hmm tie between Batman and Batman Forever, both movies were equally great and stuck to the dark meaning of Batman and Batman Returns was pretty good too, but just not as great
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