kpjoon
Gotham Tourist
The Batman Beyond
Posts: 18
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Post by kpjoon on Jul 28, 2004 21:54:06 GMT -5
Blah... I love Bruce Timm's artwork but after seeing Jeff Matsuda's designs on The Batman... his art just blew me away.
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scabs
Legions Of Gothamite
Posts: 35
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Post by scabs on Jul 28, 2004 22:22:16 GMT -5
I don't think the comparision is fair to either party (apples and oranges). I know the current Batman team has alot of respect for Timm and his crew though.
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Post by San Diego Chargers on Jul 28, 2004 22:30:34 GMT -5
Bruce Timm's drawings are the best Batman drawing's of all time. Hands down.
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Post by /\/\att on Jul 28, 2004 22:44:13 GMT -5
[shadow=green,left,300]Its honestly not fair to compare the two. They're different styles all together. Both, In my opinion, are fantastic! I love 'em both equally, but for different reasons.
Timm creates an iconic universe for Batman, while Matsuda is very edgy.[/shadow]
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Post by ThatBlockoGuy on Jul 29, 2004 5:36:43 GMT -5
[shadow=green,left,300] Timm creates an iconic universe for Batman, while Matsuda is very edgy.[/shadow] That is the best comparison I've heard. "Iconic universe" - I don't think I heard it summed up better.
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Post by The Detective on Jul 29, 2004 8:50:07 GMT -5
i think Matsuda's re-designs are great and modern. But without Timm's work would we have even gotten this far with batman in the animated world. Timm wins because i have seen more of his work than Matsuda's work.
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Post by Robin on Jul 29, 2004 19:58:08 GMT -5
I agree with Matt. But the animation in The Batman is better with all the high tech stuff these days.
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Post by JokersGalPal on Jul 29, 2004 20:08:39 GMT -5
[shadow=red,left,300]If I could ever burn a thread...it would be now... [/shadow]
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Post by Kid L on Jul 29, 2004 20:17:35 GMT -5
matsuda's definately a force to be reckoned with, but come on - bruce timm is THE MAN!!! he brought about a golden era for batman and majorly influenced the animation industry w/his sleek, stream-lined style... i would even say that jeff matsuda most likely drew a lot of inspiration and influence from timms work... in the end they're both champs, but one did come long before the other, and i think that deserves a certain amount of respect and acknowledgment...
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Post by BullocK on Jul 29, 2004 23:56:30 GMT -5
[shadow=red,left,300]This poll means nothing...I mean both Timm and Matsuda are very talented artists who have reimagined the Batman universe, and I love the end product from both.[/shadow]
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The Dinoboy Wonder!
Gotham Tourist
If you have a the lost world carnotaurus "bonebreaker", pm me ASAP.
Posts: 0
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Post by The Dinoboy Wonder! on Jul 30, 2004 0:35:37 GMT -5
bruce timm revolucionised(sp?) the world of action cartoons(specially batman and superman and JL), so I have to give it to him.
jeff matsuda's work is...interesting...the batman's great, but I have no idea where he got inspiration to do the joker...specially the joker...my war is against joker.
that's all...I love everything else but joker.
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Post by re on Jul 30, 2004 0:35:57 GMT -5
Like Matt said I like both styles for different reasons.
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Post by /\/\att on Jul 30, 2004 0:39:03 GMT -5
[shadow=green,left,300]Its like comparing Neal Adams and Jim Lee! Both are so very necessary and talented...just different stages in the batman's evolution. We need fresh artists to do their take on the franchise as time progresses...otherwise Batman'd be stuck in the past like most other DC properties lol. saying you ONLY like Timm animation is like saying you ONLY like one comic artist's work. I don't hear everyone complaining when the comics get new artists. [/shadow]
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The Dinoboy Wonder!
Gotham Tourist
If you have a the lost world carnotaurus "bonebreaker", pm me ASAP.
Posts: 0
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Post by The Dinoboy Wonder! on Jul 30, 2004 0:43:11 GMT -5
[shadow=green,left,300]Its like comparing Neal Adams and Jim Lee! Both are so very necessary and talented...just different stages in the batman's evolution. We need fresh artists to do their take on the franchise as time progresses...otherwise Batman'd be stuck in the past like most other DC properties lol. saying you ONLY like Timm animation is like saying you ONLY like one comic artist's work. I don't hear everyone complaining when the comics get new artists. [/shadow] you're right...you're right...im not much of a comic wiz anyhow. ;D
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Josh
Gotham Tourist
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Post by Josh on Jul 30, 2004 1:00:22 GMT -5
[glow=blue,2,300]It's hard to compare. I like them both.[/glow]
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Post by reideen1313 on Jul 30, 2004 1:45:23 GMT -5
Its like comparing Neal Adams and Jim Lee! That's not even a fair comparison Matt. Neal Adams body of work FAR outweighs Lee's. Lee has done, what 5 pin up's and 12 issues? A couple of covers thrown in here and there? I'll take Adams any day of the week. Lee can go back to Wildcats for all I care. [shadow=green,left,300] Both are talented...just different stages in the batman's evolution. We need fresh artists to do their take on the franchise as time progresses...otherwise Batman'd be stuck in the past like most other DC properties lol. saying you ONLY like Timm animation is like saying you ONLY like one comic artist's work.[/shadow] I'll agree with you here though. Different visions are necessary for the character to continue to evolve and be relevant in today's market. Heaven forbid we ever see another "The Many Suits of Batman" on the shelves. I enjoy both - BTAS from a standpoint of it was revolutionary at the time - it took a character that we all knew and stripped it to the core. Made it what it should be. From what I've seen so far of The Batman, I think it is, as your evolution charts have so accurately shown, the next step for the Batman mythos.
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Post by Spyderwebz74 on Jul 30, 2004 3:41:50 GMT -5
That's not even a fair comparison Matt. Neal Adams body of work FAR outweighs Lee's. Lee has done, what 5 pin up's and 12 issues? A couple of covers thrown in here and there? I'll take Adams any day of the week. Lee can go back to Wildcats for all I care. You know, I admire Adams work, yet what does the "body of work" have to do with it? That's similar to here where everyone obsesses over post count!! It's not quanity it's quality!! True Adams played a major role in the evolution of batman and deserves such, but he also became quite boring as sales and interest show. There was a significant drop in the sales of batman titles during Adams run. Why do you think they have "blessed" Lee with the return? True he has only done a limited run on batman, but just that small amount has broke several limits. One question, Has neal adams had an entire toy line made based off his work? Has the batman community not greatly increased since Lee's work? besides if you do your homework, Lee's "body of work greatly surpasses Adam's, maybe not for DC but I think you know what work he's done. I'm going to stop here, we can finish this tomorrow!!
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Post by /\/\att on Jul 30, 2004 3:45:10 GMT -5
[shadow=green,left,300]You've actually helped to prove my point reideen! Lets take Timm...HUGE body of work..just like Adams...lets take Matsuda..small body of work..just like Lee Now my comparisons are general, so no they don't apply in all ways, but the Timm style died out. Sorry to say. Sales fell. Kids lost interest. Just like with Adams. Now, enter Lee with his amazing art and view on the characters. Sales go UP. As they will with this new vision by Matsuda.[/shadow]
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Post by reideen1313 on Jul 30, 2004 16:10:17 GMT -5
You know, I admire Adams work, yet what does the "body of work" have to do with it? That's similar to here where everyone obsesses over post count!! It's not quanity it's quality!! True Adams played a major role in the evolution of batman and deserves such, but he also became quite boring as sales and interest show. There was a significant drop in the sales of batman titles during Adams run. Why do you think they have "blessed" Lee with the return? True he has only done a limited run on batman, but just that small amount has broke several limits. One question, Has neal adams had an entire toy line made based off his work? Has the batman community not greatly increased since Lee's work? besides if you do your homework, Lee's "body of work greatly surpasses Adam's, maybe not for DC but I think you know what work he's done. I'm going to stop here, we can finish this tomorrow!! This isn't necessarily the place for this discussion, so I'll try to keep it brief. There are toys based on Adams' work - almost everything Batman related that DC Direct puts out is linked to his concept of the character somehow. Mattel has a few that can be directly tied back to his vision also. Plus, Neal's main body of work was 30 years ago. Batman, Green Lantern/Green Arrow, Flash, Deadman, Superman, Brave and the Bold, Phantom Stranger - I would say that Neal was DC's "go to guy" during the 70's. Here's a more complete list than I could ever compile: www.nealadams.com/comicchecklist.htmlOn the other hand, here is Jim Lee's list. I see a lot of cover only notations here.... groups.msn.com/artofjimlee/checklist.msnwPerhaps that's because of Lee's inability to complete work on time or stay on a project for longer than 12 issues? I'm not saying one is better than the other. Like Matt noted - one revitalized the character, the other expanded on it and took it to a different level. That's what I'm hopin happens with The Batman. (there - I made it relevant to the topic! ;D )
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Post by Batman Prevails on Jul 30, 2004 19:27:16 GMT -5
Timm all the way!
[shadow=green,left,300]This post has been modified by the Admin. This thread is not for insulting either artist. A simple Timm or Matsuda will do.[/shadow]
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The Dinoboy Wonder!
Gotham Tourist
If you have a the lost world carnotaurus "bonebreaker", pm me ASAP.
Posts: 0
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Post by The Dinoboy Wonder! on Jul 30, 2004 21:59:48 GMT -5
*cries to the fact that kids lost interest in timm style*
why JLU then?
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Post by /\/\att on Jul 31, 2004 1:25:52 GMT -5
*cries to the fact that kids lost interest in timm style* why JLU then? [shadow=green,left,300]JLU has very little batman..it focuses on different characters. Its not just the Timm art style that I meant..its the those toons...that universe..the kids lots interest eventually. Its terrible to say, but true. Batman needs a fresh new world. He's long overdue, IMO! JLU is a fantastic show and I'll be watching that as well. I'm a fan of both artists.[/shadow]
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Post by Faithfulbutler on Jul 31, 2004 2:58:40 GMT -5
I love all the artists,each bring their own flavour and style to the table.I think it is unfair to say one is better than another simply because of that.
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Post by TheNight on Jul 31, 2004 11:58:12 GMT -5
I don't think itz fair to compare these 2 guyz...they're styles are very different but I guess I'll timm cuz if it wasn't for him batman wouldn't be as popular
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Post by Batman Prevails on Jul 31, 2004 23:20:42 GMT -5
Eh, just for the record I did NOT 'insult' Jeff Matsuda by comparing him to Pitof. I just think Pitof and Matsuda both took A LOT of artistic liberty by re-designing and re-inventing traditional comic book characters. I think it's hypocritical to praise the new Joker's 'Blanka'-look while complaining about Catwoman's exposed toes and belly. I grew up with the idea that the Joker is a fashion-concious, strategic, homocidal maniac. This new beast-like Joker doesn't fit well with that perception.
However I want judge a book by its cover, even if I don't like most of the new design I will still watch The Batman, let's be honest a new Batman show, in which we get to see a REAL Batman who does not have to share the screen with other superheroes and a ridicolously large amount of side-kicks is great.
I'm quite conservative in terms of new approaches, that's why I prefer Timm's designs because they're close to the contemporary comic book characters.
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Post by /\/\att on Aug 1, 2004 0:03:44 GMT -5
[shadow=green,left,300]Comparing him to Pitoff was not why the post was edited...it was the negative and belligerent way in which you presented it.
The problem people have with Catwoman goes far beyond the costume. It has to do with the typical disregard hollywood has for the fans. Matsuda is a fan and has great regard for the franchise. Joker has an escaped mental patient look. I have no problem with that. Its the early days....it takes time to become a 'crime boss' of sorts. Joker has been portrayed in many comics in a very similar light.[/shadow]
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Post by Batboy on Aug 1, 2004 19:59:19 GMT -5
Timm's art was way before his time, it was really awesome, but I'm liking Matsuda's work better.
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Post by Peev34 on Aug 3, 2004 7:48:20 GMT -5
[shadow=green,left,300]JLU has very little batman..it focuses on different characters. Its not just the Timm art style that I meant..its the those toons...that universe..the kids lots interest eventually. Its terrible to say, but true. Batman needs a fresh new world. He's long overdue, IMO! JLU is a fantastic show and I'll be watching that as well. I'm a fan of both artists.[/shadow] [shadow=blue,left,300]Well said. With that in mind, I would personally love to see Matsuda's form take off and result in an entirely new line of shows and "adventures" styled comics much like DC and WB has done with Timm's style over the years. If this new show is a hit (er..WHEN), I think it can be used as a platform to further popularize the entire DCU...not just Batman. As far as the poll, I agree with the sentiments that you cannot fairly compare the two. I love them both for different reasons. Honestly, I have a feeling that in a few years Matsuda will be looked at like Timm is now.[/shadow]
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Post by TheQuestion on Aug 7, 2004 17:40:13 GMT -5
Im a huge fan of Timm, but i love the new look too, since haven't seen the new show in action Ill stick with Timm for now
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Post by anthonywayne on Aug 9, 2004 10:41:36 GMT -5
Every new version that hits is really just another "chapter" in the myth that is Batman. I think we just need to remember that when approaching this subject.
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