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Post by jabsy on Apr 21, 2006 16:21:49 GMT -5
OK....Lorrayne is hard at work on another big painting. I thought i would let you all have a look at the pencil drawing so far. Let me know what you think.
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Post by ??The Riddler?? on Apr 21, 2006 16:26:29 GMT -5
Wowzaa that's the best one yet!!! Your wife has amazing talents.
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Post by jabsy on Apr 21, 2006 16:28:23 GMT -5
Wowzaa that's the best one yet!!! Your wife has amazing talents. Hey there, Thanks very much. Bye the way, have you received your drawing yet. I posted it off on Tuesday.
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Post by ??The Riddler?? on Apr 21, 2006 16:30:18 GMT -5
Not yet Jabsy but I can't wait till I get it.
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Post by Batlaw on Apr 21, 2006 16:54:56 GMT -5
Wowzaa that's the best one yet!!! Your wife has amazing talents. Gotta quote that! Cant wait to see it all done... and uh, hanging on my wall! ;D
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Post by The Dark Knight on Apr 21, 2006 23:03:13 GMT -5
:oMan! ...Indescribable! *steals Jabsy's wife's talents* She truly is talented Jabsy! Thank her once again for me for a masterpiece done well!
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Post by Faithfulbutler on Apr 22, 2006 18:33:39 GMT -5
I'm keen as Mustard to see this one all finished.It's looking great Jabsy!
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Post by Dr. Baghead on Apr 22, 2006 23:59:54 GMT -5
You need to credit the original artist when you show these. The images in your sig: the image of Catwoman is from the introduction page to the Hush trade (Vol1) but it also appears later in the comic. The image of Batman is the first image of the actual comic. This new one: Bizarro is DC Superheroes figure (offical Mattel press release it seems), the Cover of Superman/Batman #8 by Micheal Turner, and the awesome "Laughing Batty" by Carl Critchlow probably from the "Batman Masterpieces" book I even matched up the composite so it's clear this isn't a free hand redraw as you can see Bizarro and Laughing Batty are cropped by Bat/Supes in the EXACT same places as your wife's drawing. There's nothing wrong with using a project to trace other's artwork for amature art projects like this. Heck, even professional use projectors (Alex Ross does for sure as did Da Vinci and Michealangelo... yes, the techincally existed back then!... but Professionals are expected to use their own original sketches or pictures they took themself) but it's considered unethical to not site the source when displaying them (and if it was a free hand redraw you'd have to say "taken from..." or "based on..." to still give the original it's dues. Your wife has talent to apply the paint, and the finishes must look GREAT in your home, and her original sketches look good too. But you REALLY need to credit the original artist.
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Post by /\/\att on Apr 23, 2006 0:10:07 GMT -5
I can understand your points Dr. Baghead, however, I would shy away from telling people what they "NEED" to do. Politely suggesting things is ok.
This is a board for fan-fun. Credit to the artist would be nice of you, but its not 100% necessary. This isn't for profit or any other gain, its just for fan fun.
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Post by Dr. Baghead on Apr 23, 2006 0:26:01 GMT -5
I can understand your points Dr. Baghead, however, I would shy away from telling people what they "NEED" to do. Politely suggesting things is ok. Sorry Matt, I didn't mean to sound angry when I said that I know these are just fun paintings that don't hurt anyone but please understand: Actually yeah it is 100% from an ethics stand point. And to be fair, you stamp every image you post on the board with a "LOG" logo and watermark, you banned a fellow for posting your sneakpeak image of the Begins Batsuit on other boards... you clearly don't like others to use your images without premission so why is it option to credit others for their work. True, but did a few people ask about commissions, not saying she would have done them but it's it only fair it's disclosed what they're buying is an enlargement of another's work not an original?
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Post by /\/\att on Apr 23, 2006 0:34:31 GMT -5
I can understand your points Dr. Baghead, however, I would shy away from telling people what they "NEED" to do. Politely suggesting things is ok. Sorry Matt, I didn't mean to sound angry when I said that I know these are just fun paintings that don't hurt anyone but please understand: Actually yeah it is 100% from an ethics stand point. And to be fair, you stamp every image you post on the board with a "LOG" logo and watermark, you banned a fellow for posting your sneakpeak image of the Begins Batsuit on other boards... you clearly don't like others to use your images without premission so why is it option to credit others for their work. True, but did a few people ask about commissions, not saying she would have done them but it's it only fair it's disclosed what they're buying is an enlargement of another's work not an original? I place the LoG watermark on images because once they're on our server, every time its viewed it costs me money. This is ok by me, but I'll be damned if we're not going to get a little advertising for the site out of the deal! lol Its a completely different situation. Professional artists, particularly ones as recognizible and obvious as Jim Lee, aren't losing any money in this situation. Its fan art being used for fan purposes. Period. By your reasoning, I should have a little note under every image used on LoG giving credit to the artist. Not gonna happen. Ethics are subjective and entirely up for debate on a constant basis. You're entitled to your opinion, but you don't dictate the rules on LoG.
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Post by Dr. Baghead on Apr 23, 2006 0:50:13 GMT -5
I place the LoG watermark on images because once they're on our server, every time its viewed it costs me money. This is ok by me, but I'll be damned if we're not going to get a little advertising for the site out of the deal! lol Its a completely different situation. Professional artists, particularly ones as recognizible and obvious as Jim Lee, aren't losing any money in this situation. Its fan art. period. So let's say you get an exclusive first look at the Batman's Robin, if I copied the image to my Photobucket account, removed the water mark, and started posting it all nilly frilly around the web you'd have no problems with it then? Or if I copied some of the stuff from a members only section of the site (like an interview or what not) and posted it on my own that'd be cool too? This is EXACTLY the same thing, it's copying another personal's intellictual property and not creditting them. Yes, Jim Lee is well know and what not, but there's nothing in the post to imply these aren'tt original works. I see far too many kids on DeviantArt tracing pictures out of Hush and saying "it's Jim Lee styled" rather "I copied a Jim Lee picture" it's a growing problem to not credit artist, if you like a work enough to spend the time tracing it you like it enough to spend 5 seconds typing "taken from a comic pannel from Jim Lee"
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Post by /\/\att on Apr 23, 2006 1:18:43 GMT -5
I place the LoG watermark on images because once they're on our server, every time its viewed it costs me money. This is ok by me, but I'll be damned if we're not going to get a little advertising for the site out of the deal! lol Its a completely different situation. Professional artists, particularly ones as recognizible and obvious as Jim Lee, aren't losing any money in this situation. Its fan art. period. So let's say you get an exclusive first look at the Batman's Robin, if I copied the image to my Photobucket account, removed the water mark, and started posting it all nilly frilly around the web you'd have no problems with it then? Or if I copied some of the stuff from a members only section of the site (like an interview or what not) and posted it on my own that'd be cool too? This is EXACTLY the same thing, it's copying another personal's intellictual property and not creditting them. Yes, Jim Lee is well know and what not, but there's nothing in the post to imply these aren'tt original works. I see far too many kids on DeviantArt tracing pictures out of Hush and saying "it's Jim Lee styled" rather "I copied a Jim Lee picture" it's a growing problem to not credit artist, if you like a work enough to spend the time tracing it you like it enough to spend 5 seconds typing "taken from a comic pannel from Jim Lee" Its actually not the same issue at all. Jim Lee is a professional artist that works for DC Comics. Batman is property of DC. ANY Batman drawing put out in the industry is property of DC, not the artist. Whats in discussion is FAN art. Not for profit..not for resale..just for fun. Its proper etiquette to credit the original artist, but far from a requirement. Taking something from LoG and re-working it can differ, depending on what it is. If I conduct an interview, that interview is my property and should be credited as such. However, Jim Lee does not own the image of Batman, or any professional images of Batman that he has produced. The rights to those belong to DC Comics and Dc Comics alone. If you feel that someone is forging another artists work and passing it off on their own, well thats an entirely different issue, then isn't it? But fan art, even that based on a specific image, is just that...fan art. You're welcome to feel the way that you do. If you have further concerns or issues, express them to me via PM.
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Post by jabsy on Apr 23, 2006 7:00:38 GMT -5
Ok Point 1: My wife and I have never stated that any of her work was original drawings by her. My wife spends hours of her own time painting and drawing these for fun. Point 2: We have never sold any of her work and have never intended to do so. Point 3: We are fans and this work and this fan art is only shared for the purpose of other fans. Professional ethics are for professional artists. Lorrayne is a dinner lady and i am a serving soldier so maybe we should have studied law to appease your concerns. Point 4: While i am very impressed by your detective work, any fan on this earth would know what artist and what pictures these came from. The Batman in my sig came from The front cover of wizard so that part of your detective work was wrong. I even stated in the original thread that these were from Jim Lee. batman.manyfacesof.com/art/wizard134.jpgPoint 5: I really resent the fact that you are telling me what i can and cannot do. I am sharing these pictures for everyones enjoyment on this board. If you had any concerns then maybe you should have mailed me instead of hijacking someones thread to make a point. If Matt had any problems with these pictures then i would have removed them immediately. This is HIS site after all. Point 6: Instead of spending your own time trying to discredit something that was never intended, you should maybe have just asked in the first place. Then i would not have had to waste my own time writing something like this for you and you could have used your cut and paste efforts for something more constuctive.
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Post by reideen1313 on Apr 23, 2006 11:19:54 GMT -5
Jabsy,
I think that your wife's work is amazing (and I very RARELY post to these types of threads, simply because I have nothing to contribute to the discussion most times).
PLEASE do not take Baghead's posts as anything that would discourage her from continuing OR you from continuing to post them here. I think that would be a loss to our entire community and I'd hate to see the actions/opinions of one individual effect the entire forum like that.
Personally, IMO, doing work like this is not any different than making a custom of a character. You're still doing the painting/sculpting/whatever -it's still your work. Very rarely do you see anyone doing customs saying 'this is fill in the blank's version of this character." Most people can figure that out for themselves and we're none the worse for it.
I just appreciate the talent that your wife has and would encourage both of you to continue showing the work as you have in the past.
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Post by reideen1313 on Apr 23, 2006 11:23:32 GMT -5
So let's say you get an exclusive first look at the Batman's Robin, if I copied the image to my Photobucket account, removed the water mark, and started posting it all nilly frilly around the web you'd have no problems with it then? Or if I copied some of the stuff from a members only section of the site (like an interview or what not) and posted it on my own that'd be cool too? As you mentioned in your earlier post, that did happen before and I banned the member responsible. If you'd like to try your hand at it and see what happens, you're welcome to do so. Just don't be suprised by the outcome.
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Post by jabsy on Apr 23, 2006 11:28:42 GMT -5
Thank you reideen1313 for your kind words. I think some people enjoy trying to take the air from your balloon, so in that respect...... Here is an update on the progress so far.
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Post by Casimir on Apr 23, 2006 12:13:04 GMT -5
Just chiming in... There's a big difference between someone who creates art of any kind for his/her personal use (to display in one's home) and plagerism for profit. If one can't tell the difference between the two, one is not in a position to comment.
Based on Dr. Baghead's position, half my toy collection would be illegal.
C.
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Post by ??The Riddler?? on Apr 23, 2006 12:24:52 GMT -5
[shadow=green,left,300]Great coloration. I love it! [/shadow]
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Post by BullocK on Apr 23, 2006 12:27:53 GMT -5
Jabsy your wife is doing a tremendous job thus far. I cannot wait to see the finished piece. Do not let her take any of the comments made in this forum by an individual to heart. Tell her to keep cranking them out, as she really does a fantastic job and she's developing quite a fanbase on this forum.
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darkclaw
Legions of Gotham Police Officer
Posts: 249
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Post by darkclaw on Apr 23, 2006 13:20:03 GMT -5
Jasby I think your wife is doing a super-batty job!! I can wait to see the final result.
If I may chime in here Matt, I am a professional Graphic Artist and have a little insite with copyrights.
Let's say for example, if Jasby's wife were to sell any of these she could, but not for profit. As long as her costs are only recovered it is looked opon as ok in a fan -to- fan purchase.
If she were to sell this image to say a T-shirt company or a poster shop that would make multiple copies of it and re-sell them, THEN the (C) would have to be on there and DC would have to allow the use of the image. Of course, there would also be a hefty fee she would have to pay DC to use the images of Bat, Bizzaro, Supes and Joker.
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Post by /\/\att on Apr 23, 2006 13:55:44 GMT -5
Jasby I think your wife is doing a super-batty job!! I can wait to see the final result. If I may chime in here Matt, I am a professional Graphic Artist and have a little insite with copyrights. Let's say for example, if Jasby's wife were to sell any of these she could, but not for profit. As long as her costs are only recovered it is looked opon as ok in a fan -to- fan purchase. If she were to sell this image to say a T-shirt company or a poster shop that would make multiple copies of it and re-sell them, THEN the (C) would have to be on there and DC would have to allow the use of the image. Of course, there would also be a hefty fee she would have to pay DC to use the images of Bat, Bizzaro, Supes and Joker. Exactly. Thank you for your insight darkclaw. I think most of us already know this having been fans for quite a lot of years...I forget its not common sense to some people. Beautiful and painstaking work by your wife jabsy, and as you said, no self-respecting fan wouldn't know where it came from. The piece is looking beautiful so far. LoG does NOT tolerate fans attacking each other over ANYTHING, much less fan art! I assure you this will be dealt with one way or the other.
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Post by Eric on Apr 23, 2006 14:39:24 GMT -5
Jabsy, you are going to have a fine collection of personal art. Being a collector, i find things like one of a kind paintings, figures, whatever, being either professionaly done or fan made helps define your collection. Cant wait to see this one painted up.
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Post by jabsy on Apr 24, 2006 13:03:28 GMT -5
Its finished ;D I have placed a CD in the picture to show the scale. ;D Joker is taken from Carl Critchlow's Laughing Batty, Bizzaro is from the action figure released by Mattel and Batman/Super man is from SUPERMAN/BATMAN #8 (art by Michael Turner) I hope you enjoy this as much as i love showing it off.
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Post by Jack-Ups on Apr 24, 2006 13:09:47 GMT -5
Jabsy youve outdone your self this time LOL thats so good I love the contrast of the background to the characters!It just stands out so well!!
I dont know what youll do next!
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Post by jabsy on Apr 24, 2006 13:18:13 GMT -5
Jabsy youve outdone your self this time LOL thats so good I love the contrast of the background to the characters!It just stands out so well!! I dont know what youll do next! The only credit i can take for this painting is posting it here. ;D My wife Lorrayne did the easy part. ;D
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Post by ??The Riddler?? on Apr 24, 2006 15:36:39 GMT -5
[shadow=green,left,300] Jabsy, tell Lorrayne she did a marvelous job on this piece along with her others! I love Joker in a Batsuit, it's brilliant! Riddle Me This... And Riddle Me That... Who has amazing talents of drawing the Bat? Lorrayne! [/shadow]
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Post by The Dark Knight on Apr 24, 2006 15:54:24 GMT -5
The final piece is beautiful Jabsy! Tell Lorrayne to keep up the incredible work! I can't make it much clearer than that. It's just beautiful
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Post by Casimir on Apr 24, 2006 16:13:14 GMT -5
Nice work, Lorrayne!
And to Jabsy, for picking a talented lady. ;D
C.
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Post by Faithfulbutler on Apr 24, 2006 19:40:13 GMT -5
Absolutely fantastic Jabsy,your Wife deserves all the accolades the guys here are giving!Really outstanding and inspiring work,thanks so much for sharing with all of us.I for one am jealous!
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