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Post by /\/\att on Dec 15, 2004 2:22:11 GMT -5
[shadow=green,left,300]Identity Crisis spoiler! I've been reading this from some respected folks online that Jean Loring is the killer. This leaves a million gaping plot holes in my mind, but ok. Supposedly its an accident, she meant only to shrink down and knock Sue Dibney out, not kill her, but she increased her size while in her brain accidentally. Then, she uses the flame thrower she was mysteriously carrying on her  to fry Sue's body....mmmm ok... THEN she basically gets Jack Drake killed after somehow figuring out how to contact the Calculator? what the... I haven't picked up the issue yet, but when I do I'll confirm or deny what seems to be a very credible rumor about the ending....IMO, this spells L-A-M-E!  After how lame War Games was this just tops it off for me...DC is going to the crapper. [/shadow] |
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Post by ThatBlockoGuy on Dec 15, 2004 8:15:40 GMT -5
....um, why would she do that? And Matt, if this rumor does prove to be true I'm sticking with the animated DCU from now on. Those 1950s Batman in space stories make more sense than Jean Loring:Killer. Sounds like DC has just created their own Desperate Housewives scenario. Geez, I feel ill.
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Post by /\/\att on Dec 15, 2004 9:03:57 GMT -5
lets just hope its wrong man  |
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Post by Batlaw on Dec 15, 2004 10:43:27 GMT -5
"SPOILER" would be an understatement if this turned out to be true!
The whole thing would be ruined, wasted and worthless.
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Post by reideen1313 on Dec 15, 2004 15:53:07 GMT -5
OK. I just got done reading it. Matt - the spoilers that we talked about (above) are correct. I'm..... let down to say the least. Don't get me wrong - I can see how everything ties together - all the clues are there. I can even take Jean being the killer. The piece that doesn't make sense to me though is why would Jean have taken some weapons with her if she only meant to knock Sue out? I just don't get it. |
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Post by reideen1313 on Dec 15, 2004 18:50:39 GMT -5
Another thing. How exactly did this take Batman down a peg? Because he didn't solve the mystery and the Atom did? Or would it be because Robin's father was killed? The more I think about this, the more holes I seem to find.
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Post by vishman007 on Dec 15, 2004 18:55:26 GMT -5
I was very let down by the issue. At first I didnt like how it might have been the Atom that did it, but having read this, I'm wishing it was him. At least we could have had a big superhero show down.
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Post by ThatBlockoGuy on Dec 15, 2004 20:53:39 GMT -5
*sigh*....Let's just hope that this leads to something much bigger....kind of the way the Hobbit is a prequel for the Lord of the Rings. Anyway suffice it to say that the DC boards are all a buzz. IMO give me a good Silver Age story any day over this. Sorry but I don't consider this a powerful story. I remember reading a great GA tale in which a young boy is accidently killed, it ends with a quote from Hemingway about death being indifferent. Ollie discovering that Roy was a user, that great scene in the batcave when Dick confronts Bruce about having picked Jean Paul as his replacement and the line about "fathers and sons" and the near finale to the Crisis on Infinite Earths when the earth 2 Superman pummels the Anti Monitor stating that he has had enough of him ; these make for powerful stories. The difference these stories were dramatic ,IDC was a soap opera and a bad one at that. Let's just hope that Jean was "pushed" or guided to do what she did by some other individual so that this crisis becomes the first act in a much larger saga because as a stand alone "event" it missed the mark. |
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Post by /\/\att on Dec 15, 2004 23:39:34 GMT -5
I think the definitive word for this finale is ANTI-CLIMACTIC (sp?) talk about over-hyped. I think I'm done buying into DCs hype for awhile...war games sucked....IDC was very blah as well....they just don't get it, do they |
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Post by /\/\att on Dec 16, 2004 6:26:21 GMT -5
[shadow=green,left,300]Here is a very well thought out and thought provoking theory from the DC Comics boards ...a poster named joeplesniak...[/shadow]
There are many posters who are confused and somewhat angry about IC#7 and the conclusion of Identity Crisis.
Let me offer a theory alternative that might explain what we've seen and why we've seen it....
ART CLUES IN RAY AND JEAN CONFESSION SCENE:
Notice that in the multi-page Jean confession scene with Ray both characters swing wildly between passive/normal and eye-bulging accusatory (in Ray's case) and weepy/grinning/psycho "I going to confess everything" (in Jean's case). Neither character is "passive" at the same time, nor are they "wild" at the same time. Each of these personality changes is accompanied by "silent panels" that show a close up of either Jean or Ray with a blank look on their face.
The theory is that a Mind Dominator is hopping between Ray and Jean to orchestrate Jean's confession and Ray's subsequent punishment of Jean. Also look at the emphasis on the character's eyes when they are being Dominated.
This techique is consistent with many other key plot scenes throughout Identity Crisis when characters have a "change of heart" or make a decisive action. Some examples:
- In IC#5, when Jack Drake changes his mind and lets Robin go on patrol facilitating his own death (accompanied by Drake eye color change)
- In IC#1, when Bolt changes his mind and decides to approach the Luthor suit buy facilitating the diversion for the Sue attack
- In IC#4, when Owen Mercer over-enthusiastically embraces Boomerang after dully ignoring him in IC#3
- In IC#4, when Green Arrow vociferously argues against pursuing the Suicide Squad (with Clark and Kents in background monitor ... more on that later)
- In IC#6, the sequence starting with Dr. Light to The Flash (with Green Arrow) to Batman leading to the Ray/Jean confession scene
Also, for you "Jean Loring eye color" fans out there, during her confession Jean's eyes revert to the pre-hanging Mind Dominated Green after being post-hanging normal Blue during IC#5/6 ....
JEAN'S CONFESSION JUST DOESN'T ADD UP:
Jean's confession seem rushed? It is. "I missed you, Ray" ... well, in the full spectrum of possibilities, it would be a lot easier to just say that than to concoct an elaborate "scare Sue to bring Ray back" plot. Then does Jean have the capabilities to concoct an even MORE elaborate cover-up of Sue's "accident" by:
- contacting Calculator
- hiring Boomerang
- traveling to Metropolis (while in the hospital) to deliver Lois' note
- traveling to Gotham to deliver the gun-in-box to Jack Drake
- P.S. How does she even know about Jack Drake with Tim's ID being so tightly controlled?
Also, yet to be explained, but extremely significant ... Jean was scheduled to meet with Ray at exactly the time of Sue's murder. Ray was delayed. Ray is seeming to conveniently ignore that piece of evidence.
My theory is that the Mind Dominator has used Jean to gain inside information on the superhero community and orchestrate the first part of an elaborate revenge plot against the JLA by having Jean kill Sue. The Mind Dominator has also orchestrated Jean's confession and Ray's subsequent action.
WHY SEND JEAN TO ARKHAM?:
Seem like a lack of due process, and or a lack of a criminal trial? Seem like to bad idea to send her to Arkham? It is. The Mind Dominator used Ray to hurriedly place Jean in Arkham where she is exposed to numerous Batman rogues ... who vacation there between crime sprees. Already that thread is developing through the two views of the National Inquirer "Atom's Wife Tortured by Inmates". This will set up a continuing story/diversion/worry for Batman.
J'ONN J'ONZZ's REACTION:
Only in one panel in IC#7, page 1. At the end of IC#6, Batman tells J'onn to find Ray telepathically. When J'onn finds Ray, he senses that Ray is being Mind Dominated (Ray emerging from bathroom). That explains J'onn's reaction ... something isn't right. Also notice that the Mind Dominator quickly switched out of Ray through a "silent panel".
THE MIND DOMINATOR IS NOW EVERYWHERE:
- Pages 19-20, another Flash/Green Arrow scene just like in IC#6. Seem pointless? It's not. Compare Wally's head and eyes in each scene. Similar actions ... bowing head ... intense repeated glare ... strange, off-the-wall background questions. In IC#6, the Mind Dominator (as Wally) is questioning GA to find out that Batman has been mind-wiped and is therefore susceptible to being Mind Dominated. In IC#7, the Mind Dominator is using Wally to probe at Superman's secret Identity.
- Pages 24-25. Have you EVER, EVER seen Superman portrayed with gleaming AMBER eyes? Just like several Mind Dominated characters throughout IC (Cpt. Boomerang, Owen Mercer, Jack Drake, Calculator). The Mind Dominator has learned Superman's ID and can now Dominate Superman. The scene is creepy as he tests out the Clark Kent ID with Ma Kent ... also featuring a "silent panel". Superman seem out-of-sorts here? He's being dominated. Yeah, Ma Kent's eyes are amber too ... but she's facing a setting sun ... the sun is to Superman's back ... nice art/coloring touch!
- Page 26. Yipes. Batman's eyes in several panels. This page shows that Batman can now be Dominated at will, as he was at the end of IC#6 for the first time ("Find Ray!") to normal at the beginning of IC#7 ("It's not Ray!) WHAT?!?! Well, this ecplains that inconsistancy.
WHAT'S NEXT:
This is the first chapter. Well maybe not the first ... I'm currently reading Geoff Johns' entire run of THE FLASH and seeing a lot of supporting clues and themes. Regardless, IC is the launch of a set of interconnected threats by a Mind Dominating villian who will hop freely and undetected between key players in the DC Universe and wreak havoc for the next few years incorporating key events like COUNTDOWN and CRISIS 2.
WHO IS THE MIND DOMINATOR:
I'm thinking it's Hector Hammond, the incredibly mental powered immortal invalid who is a long time Justice League threat. He is tied to the Silver Age JLA flashbacks featured in IC#2. He is foreshadowed in Issue #1 of GREEN LANTERN: REBIRTH.
We'll see....
joeplesniak aka "Lightning + Chemicals" (Pre-DC Boards Zero Hour)
joeplesniak
Posts: 963
From: Mars, PA
Registered: 5/13/03
Re: Great Ending! It's Mind Domination, folks ....
Posted: Dec 16, 2004 2:17 AM Reply
Let me also speak to motive ....
Jean's professed motive "Get my man back" is plausible, but thin. She left him. She could get him back without elaborate attacks that accidentally become murders that suggest more elaborate murders as an unneccesary coverup.
It can be explained that her comics backstory would suggest and support that she could turn psycho and do these things.
All of this is conveniently tied up and swept under the rug with an insanity rush to judgement by Ray and personal decision that incarceration in Arkham in the way to go.
There is no trial. There is no questioning by Batman. There is no further explanation given ... or wanted. That is why it is key that the Mind Dominator orchestrated the confession as he did. He ties up the loose ends after Jean Loring's Domination has fulfilled his purpose, and he's ready to move on to the next phase.
What is his purpose: The Mind Dominator's motive is revenge against the JLA by causing them personal terror by attacking their loved ones. Killing Sue to hurt Elongated Man fits. Using and then imprisoning Jean in an asylum to hurt The Atom fits. Jack Drake ... I'm still thinking there's a Black Canary (Drake/Lance) connection in addition to the obvious Batman impact.
We will see this motive continue to play out after Identity Crisis.
In and of itself, a Jean Loring "murder to get my man back" motive is not big enough, or significant enough, to shake up the DC Universe for two years....
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Post by /\/\att on Dec 16, 2004 7:03:12 GMT -5
now, in all fairness, Meltzer did say the following to Legions Of Gotham in an exclusive interview prior to the series starting last May...
LoG: How significant will the impact of Identity Crisis really be on the DC Universe? Is it overhyped?
Brad Meltzer: We're clearly overhyped right now. We cant win! It'll be judged by the quality of the story and the art as any story should be. 7 months down the road we might look back and love it, or we may think its total crap.
In terms of impact its different than the Crisis, Where it was truly a continuity change this is not that. its not oh my gosh hypertime is suddently not real or anything like that
you'll see old stories in a new light its a diffetrent take on the dc universe there are things that are just going to change
You'll see a total shift in some of DC's books . Traditionally in DC, the villians is supposed to be afraid of the hero...the readers will now discover why its the villians we should be fearing.
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Freddy PhatsaXXX
Legions Of Gothamite
Homer: "Ohhhh, but Sipowicz does it"
Posts: 96
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Post by Freddy PhatsaXXX on Dec 16, 2004 7:03:35 GMT -5
Very interesting theory. It makes the ending considerably more easy to swallow (heh, I said swallow)
However, this post does prove one thing...There is absolutely nothing to do in Mars, Pennsylvania.
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Post by ThatBlockoGuy on Dec 16, 2004 7:31:49 GMT -5
Matt, thank you for posting that, I feel much less "ill" now. Nice to see that this will, infact, most likely be an introductory story to what will ( hopefully *please*) be a grand epic. BTW, the eye theory works for me and it may even tie into the the "green eyed" Luthor in his armour in that panel in Supes/Bats where he screams that a crisis is coming. Time for optimism folks.  |
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Post by reideen1313 on Dec 16, 2004 8:37:13 GMT -5
The only thing that I don't like about that post from the DC boards is how the author continues to refer to Jean being placed in Arkham without a trial, etc. Let me tell you, as a family member, I don't need a trial to have my wife placed into a mental health facility for "observation" - Jean hasn't been sentenced by anyone but Ray. She likely won't, since Boomerang has been named in the press and the public eye as the killer. Why would the League drag another hero's name thru the mud by putting his wife on trial? Yes, it would be the right thing to do, and yes, I think it will catch up to them somehow. They aren't supposed to be above the law, and Jean still is a US citizen with a right to a trial. On the flip side of that, the police and other law agencies (I'm assuming) gave the JLA free reign on this one to handle it on their own....so maybe they haven't done anything that can come back on them?
All I know is this issue leaves more questions in my mind the more I think about it. I'm putting it away for a while. I'll get it out again in a few weeks and read all of them together to see how I feel about it then.
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Post by Arkham16 on Dec 16, 2004 16:54:18 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]Ya know i personally liked the comic, BUT it did have a lot of holes. I like the Mind Dominator theory. I did notice a few issues back about the eyes continually changing, this theory does make more sense of it. I hope something big happens in IC2[/glow]
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Post by Longbowhunter on Dec 18, 2004 18:17:20 GMT -5
hmmm....I too liked this story but agree that there were many unexplained plot holes.The mind dominator theory is a good one.One of the many theories being tossed around the DC boards is that Parralax is some sort of cosmic entity like the Phoenix Force.It moves from person to person possesing them and forcing them to unleash their inner "id"....people are thinking that this is where GL Rebirth is leading and that the new crisis at DC will involve all the heroes attempting to stop Parralax.
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to fry Sue's body....mmmm ok...
