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Post by thewacker on May 9, 2009 18:05:48 GMT -5
My friends and I in my dorm have been asking people whether or not Batman is a Super Hero or not. We have gotten some mixed reviews. I believe that he is a Hero but not a Super Hero and have been saying he is a detective, the world's greatest!
Tell me what you guys think! And support it
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Post by coliv1977 on May 9, 2009 18:09:55 GMT -5
My friends and I in my dorm have been asking people whether or not Batman is a Super Hero or not. We have gotten some mixed reviews. I believe that he is a Hero but not a Super Hero and have been saying he is a detective, the world's greatest! Tell me what you guys think! And support it I was looking for a calendar last year, I happened to find a Batman calendar(don't remember why I didn't buy it, must not have liked the artwork) and the guy at the register started messing with me, saying that Batman wasn't a superhero because he has no special powers... |
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Post by thewacker on May 9, 2009 18:26:17 GMT -5
That is what alot of people that agree that he isn't a super hero have said. That since he doesn't have super powers he isn't a super hero.
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Post by batmanofbaylor on May 10, 2009 3:25:31 GMT -5
He's a hero at the very least. I'd probably classify him as a super hero--not necessarily because of the possession of super powers but the skills he's aquired to fight crime as the worlds greatest detective.
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Post by thewacker on May 10, 2009 5:40:14 GMT -5
He's a hero at the very least. I'd probably classify him as a super hero--not necessarily because of the possession of super powers but the skills he's aquired to fight crime as the worlds greatest detective. But that's the thing his skills aren't anything "super" any normal mortal can obtain his skills through training, granted it is going to be alot of training.People just don't realize this because Batman never fails because it is fantasy no one wants to see Batman fall. |
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Post by batman1973 on May 10, 2009 8:26:14 GMT -5
^Batman has felt failure before. He considered the death of Jason Todd as a failure. Hence his reluctance to bring Tim on as the new Robin. I've read in various comics(Gotham County Line comes to mind) that Batman struggles with the times he's spent battling his rouges that he misses other chances to save the ordinary citizen of Gotham, which Bruce considers a failure.
edit:spelling 5-10-09
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Post by jlavaia on May 10, 2009 10:02:38 GMT -5
That is what alot of people that agree that he isn't a super hero have said. That since he doesn't have super powers he isn't a super hero. Iron Man has no super powers and there's not many people that wouldnt call him a super hero. |
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Post by Batlaw on May 10, 2009 11:20:04 GMT -5
I classify Batman as a Crime fighter. Arent the catagories "super heros, Crime fighters, and / or adventurers"? Batman is a crimefighter first and a hero second as far as i perceive his character and motivation. Plus he has no "powers".
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Post by batmanofbaylor on May 10, 2009 15:49:46 GMT -5
a tragic hero perhaps?
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Post by havedunter74 on May 11, 2009 2:10:25 GMT -5
I believe that he is a hero but not a super-hero as he doesnt have any "super" powers. what he does have above all his peers is an amazing intellect, when you have that why would you want heat-vision etc.........??
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Post by kilowog52 on May 12, 2009 2:54:56 GMT -5
The only reason anyone would say Batman isn't a superhero is becase he doesn't have any powers. I believe he is still a superhero, that powers aren't necessary to be a superhero.
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Post by havedunter74 on May 12, 2009 8:20:58 GMT -5
surely it does, hence the term "super-hero" id be interested to know how many other "super-heroes" there are that do not posess powers or a suit that gives them powers.
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Post by jlavaia on May 12, 2009 10:23:51 GMT -5
surely it does, hence the term "super-hero" id be interested to know how many other "super-heroes" there are that do not posess powers or a suit that gives them powers. Green Arrow, Hal Jordan, John Stewart, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Zatanna, The Question, Black Canary (before she was dipped into the Lazarus Pit), Kate Spencer, Katana, Jack Knight, Stargirl, & countless others have no powers and many people would consider them all to be "superheroes". and thats just from DC. there are many from Marvel as well. there was a whole episode of JLU about this. the one when Eiling transforms himself. powers dont make someone a hero. in real life, cops, firefighters, paramedics, some teachers, etc can be considered heroes. i've never seen any cops with super powers. |
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Post by thewacker on May 12, 2009 10:58:02 GMT -5
That is what alot of people that agree that he isn't a super hero have said. That since he doesn't have super powers he isn't a super hero. Iron Man has no super powers and there's not many people that wouldnt call him a super hero. Yes but his suit gives him powers. Ironman is a super hero but Tony Stark isn't. If you take away the Batsuit Batman is still there same peson same skills minus the gadgets. |
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Post by thewacker on May 12, 2009 11:04:28 GMT -5
surely it does, hence the term "super-hero" id be interested to know how many other "super-heroes" there are that do not posess powers or a suit that gives them powers. Green Arrow, Hal Jordan, John Stewart, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Zatanna, The Question, Black Canary (before she was dipped into the Lazarus Pit), Kate Spencer, Katana, Jack Knight, Stargirl, & countless others have no powers and many people would consider them all to be "superheroes". and thats just from DC. there are many from Marvel as well. there was a whole episode of JLU about this. the one when Eiling transforms himself. powers dont make someone a hero. in real life, cops, firefighters, paramedics, some teachers, etc can be considered heroes. i've never seen any cops with super powers. I see that alot "many people" just because people believe it doesn't make it right. I'm sure lots of German's thought what they were doing was right but was it? |
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Post by Batlaw on May 12, 2009 17:06:03 GMT -5
Super human abilities are only part of the equation if we're going to break it down. An individuals motivation is a big part of it too IMO.
Ultimately though, what IS a "Super hero" anyway!? Whats the definition? Its made up and doesnt exist so its all up to conjecture and personal opinion. Who gets to define and decide? Since its not real, there are no "experts". Its semantics.
for all intents and purposes, and to the average person, Batman is a "super hero". As a Batman fan, I take no offense and offer no argument.
If these characters must be classified, I consider Batman a "crime fighter" as that is how D.C. Comics classify him within their world and it works for me on a technical standpoint.
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Post by batman1973 on May 12, 2009 17:28:16 GMT -5
^I agree 100%.
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Post by jlavaia on May 12, 2009 21:43:53 GMT -5
Iron Man has no super powers and there's not many people that wouldnt call him a super hero. Yes but his suit gives him powers. Ironman is a super hero but Tony Stark isn't. If you take away the Batsuit Batman is still there same peson same skills minus the gadgets. how can you say that Iron Man is a Superhero, but the guy who is Iron Man is not. that makes no sense. in the Marvel Universe the general populace know that Tony Stark is Iron Man. they are one and the same. they are not 2 seperate characters. he is a Super Hero with no powers. he has alot of money. same as Batman. Batman used his money to train in martial arts and use great technology. Iron Man chose to upgrade a suit of armor with his money. and after using the Extremis Virus, Tony is Iron Man in the suit or out. |
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Post by thewacker on May 13, 2009 10:56:59 GMT -5
Yes but his suit gives him powers. Ironman is a super hero but Tony Stark isn't. If you take away the Batsuit Batman is still there same peson same skills minus the gadgets. how can you say that Iron Man is a Superhero, but the guy who is Iron Man is not. that makes no sense. in the Marvel Universe the general populace know that Tony Stark is Iron Man. they are one and the same. they are not 2 seperate characters. he is a Super Hero with no powers. he has alot of money. same as Batman. Batman used his money to train in martial arts and use great technology. Iron Man chose to upgrade a suit of armor with his money. and after using the Extremis Virus, Tony is Iron Man in the suit or out. I don't know about the extremis virus or anything like that, I'm a DC comic guy. However, I can say that without his suit he isn't Ironman because he isn't. Can Tony Stark fly? Can he shot rockets? Without his suit can Bruce Wayne still kick butt? Is he still the world's greatest detective? Bruce Wayne has all the same skills with or without his suit Tony Stark does not. However if he was injected with some virus that let him keep his powers without his suit then yes he would be a superhero because he has ....superpowers. |
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Post by jlavaia on May 13, 2009 12:22:24 GMT -5
^ the Extremis Virus doesnt grant superpowers. Iron Man and Tony Stark are one and the same. as much as you think that the Iron Man Armor is what makes Tony the superhero, thats a mistake. many characters have worn the armor and havent been able to do half of what Tony does. the general populace of the Marvel Universe is aware that Tony Stark is Iron Man. he was Secretary of Defense of the US and the former head of S.H.I.E.L.D. they are not 2 seperate entities. they are one in the same. Iron Man has no super powers at all. he is a super hero.
and by your way of thinking, Batman would have to be a superhero then. he was used technology to boost his speed and strength and give him flight on more than one occassion. that would render your argument useless though, which is why you continue to not mention it.
and forget all the semantics of a suit of armor then. Green Arrow has no superpowers. he is a superhero. Zatanna has no superpowers. she is a superhero. and of coarse the best example of all, Wildcat is a superhero. he has no superpowers. please try to disprove any of those.
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Post by thewacker on May 13, 2009 15:53:37 GMT -5
^ the Extremis Virus doesnt grant superpowers. Iron Man and Tony Stark are one and the same. as much as you think that the Iron Man Armor is what makes Tony the superhero, thats a mistake. many characters have worn the armor and havent been able to do half of what Tony does. the general populace of the Marvel Universe is aware that Tony Stark is Iron Man. he was Secretary of Defense of the US and the former head of S.H.I.E.L.D. they are not 2 seperate entities. they are one in the same. Iron Man has no super powers at all. he is a super hero. and by your way of thinking, Batman would have to be a superhero then. he was used technology to boost his speed and strength and give him flight on more than one occassion. that would render your argument useless though, which is why you continue to not mention it. and forget all the semantics of a suit of armor then. Green Arrow has no superpowers. he is a superhero. Zatanna has no superpowers. she is a superhero. and of coarse the best example of all, Wildcat is a superhero. he has no superpowers. please try to disprove any of those. You are naming people who again have been named a superhero because really there is no other term for them. Because they are fantasy no one wants to call them a hero or crime fighter that isn't exciting because then you could have a comic about an every day police officer. If they are one identity why are they given two serperate names? Just because people know that Ironman is Tony Stark doesn't mean diddly. Tony Stark can't do the same things he does when he has his suit. Which would just make him a man with alot of money. Batman does not constantly use technology to fly and fire rockets. If Batman was to say use the "Whirly Bat" every time to fight crime then yes I would consider him a superhero. By your logic a Police officer with a gun is a superhero because he is using technology to fight a criminal. You can't compare Bruce Wayne's technology to Tony Stark's. Bruce is using gadgets to catch criminals such as a Batarang. Tony STark is using his technology to fly around and fire rockets. |
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Post by jlavaia on May 13, 2009 16:57:08 GMT -5
^ Iron Man rarely fires rockets. his technology is so advanced that rockets are primitive compared to what he can do. what you dont understand is that Tony built most of his suits and performed the upgrades himself. he has no powers, he's just very smart and has a mind for technology. and who has seperate names? Iron Man is Tony Stark. Tony Stark is Iron Man. there have been times when Tony wasnt Iron Man and someone else was, but i'm talking about when Tony is Iron Man they are the same character. Iron Man was the Secretary of Defense of the United States. he wore the armor and everyone knew who it was underneath it. they are the same character. here's basically what you are saying. Batman is not a superhero because he doesnt have powers. Iron Man has no powers either but he is a superhero because he uses technology. Batman uses technology as well, but it doesnt count because he doesnt always use it. you're not making sense and you're contradicting yourself. here's what was originally said by someone else: surely it does, hence the term "super-hero" id be interested to know how many other "super-heroes" there are that do not posess powers or a suit that gives them powers. i responded by naming about 10 superheroes that dont have powers. you jumped in and said that Iron Man is a superhero because of his suit and he has powers, his suit. and then in response to the other roughly 9 heroes that i named, you say that they are only superheroes because there is no other way to classify them. way to dodge that one. to finally put the nail in the coffin of this ridiculous discussion. if you can stand toe to toe with a god and survive, its safe to say that you're a superhero. Batman has done that. Iron Man has done that. they are both superheroes and thats it. and to top it all off, Webster's defines a superhero as "an exceptionally skillful or successful person". both Batman and Iron Man fit that description. |
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Post by Batlaw on May 13, 2009 18:12:34 GMT -5
Ive broke the code... Batman is a cupcake and IronMan is a shoe!
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Post by thewacker on May 13, 2009 18:21:25 GMT -5
You are going by a definition that is in a dictionary for something that doesn't exsist in reality. How can you define something that doesn't exsist. Super heros exsist in fantasy, you can't a rational definition to something that's fantasy.
I'm not tip toeing around the fact that you are throwing characters out there that some people consider super heros. I'm just giving one answer for all of them people consider them super heros because well the same reason people consider Batman a super hero he is in a comic book. I can up to a person ask them if they know a random name that pops out my head and tell them they fight crime in a comic book and then ask them if they think he is a super hero bet you they'll say yes.
You say Batman is a super hero because he used technology once or twice to fly??? Oh lordy lordy I'm a super hero I used flew on a plane.
Tony Stark is a really smart dude so he is a super hero, Bill Gates come on down your a super hero now too.
Batman has kyrptonite in his utility belt so...I'm gonna say of course Batman is going to win. And after Superman Returns he doesn't deserve to beat Batman that movie sucked lol.
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Post by jlavaia on May 13, 2009 19:40:24 GMT -5
You are going by a definition that is in a dictionary for something that doesn't exsist in reality. How can you define something that doesn't exsist. Super heros exsist in fantasy, you can't a rational definition to something that's fantasy. You say Batman is a super hero because he used technology once or twice to fly??? Oh lordy lordy I'm a super hero I used flew on a plane. first part, the word does exist. hence its inclusion in the dictionary. second part, when did i ever post that. perhaps you should go back and actual read what i posted. i said he's a superhero because he has fought actual gods and lived. on more than one occassion. that was the example i gave. you also failed to read my comment about why Iron Man is a superhero. it has nothing to do with being smart. Iron Man has subdued Thor in battle. Iron Man has no superpowers whatsoever, yet he was able to hold his own in battle with a god, on more than one occassion. i'd say thats pretty extraordinary. like i posted earlier. this discussion has now ended. you continue to repeat yourself and you've now decided to completely make things up and you're responding to comments without reading them. you stated that i said something that was never posted. the fact that you need to blatantly make things up to attempt to get a point across tells everyone that you dont know what you are talking about in regards to this discussion. you are of coarse entitled to your opinion. its fine to think that Batman isnt a superhero, thats your opinion. mine is that he is and that powers have no bearing on what makes someone a hero. i feel that most cops, firefighters, & paramedics are heroes too. i'm sorry that you feel that the only heroes are those with powers. again, your opinion. so unless you have something new to add to this discussion, there is no furter need to continue to repeat yourself and there is truly no need to blatantly make things up and say that people posted things that they did not. thank you. |
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Post by kilowog52 on May 13, 2009 19:46:52 GMT -5
First of all, Jlavaia, can you explain what you mean when you say Zatanna does not have powers. She can make virtually anything happen by saying words backwards. How is that not a power?
Second, I think it's great for people to post their opinions, but all this arguing back and forth isn't getting us anywhere. However it is making this thread quite unpleasant.
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Post by thewacker on May 13, 2009 20:58:46 GMT -5
I never said that the word super hero didn't exsist I said there are no super heros. I never said cops aren't heros i actually posted earlier that they were, I believe, I said they were not super heros.
You said Batman went toe to toe with a god, I figured you were refuring to him fighting Superman like most other people do during this discusion. Maybe you should try making your posts more clear.
Also I didn't fail to read why you say Ironman is a superhero because you didn't really post anything just he fought a god, once again it would help if your posts were more clear. Ironman can fly his suit gives him protection and makes him stronger that kinda helps against a God.
And again with me repeating myself? What do you want me to come up with a different answer every time you throwout random characters names? Talk about repeating yourself.
I'm done listening to you cry about different heros and whether or not they are super heros, you say I'm making things up but you can't even get your facts straight with Zatanna. Batlaw I agree with he is a crime fighter, that is how DC sees it and so do I.
Thanks for the fun
p.s. This isn't anything personal or not like I hate you, I don't even know you I like to have debates it's fun. It really all depends on how you define a "super hero"
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Post by jlavaia on May 13, 2009 22:38:24 GMT -5
^ oh, i love debates. i'm at the heart of alot of them around here. i enjoy a good discussion. the statement about each fighting a god was pretty clear. Superman isnt a god, so that assumption would have been incorrect. i dont dance around things, what i post is exactly what i mean. so when i say god, i mean an actually god. Thor is an actual god. Darkseid is an actual god. Superman is just an alien who only has powers in a solar system with a yellow sun. he is far from a god. and since i dont have my "facts straight" with Zatanna, i'd love to here what super powers she has. because use of the occult and magic is not a super power. she casts spells. she is a very powerful mage, but she has no super powers. using magic is not a super power. and since you say my posts arent clear, please read below (actually read it this time): if you can stand toe to toe with a god and survive, its safe to say that you're a superhero. Batman has done that. Iron Man has done that. and kilowog, saying things backwards is a spell Zatanna casts, its not a super power, its an ability. she trained and trained and mastered that spell just like Batman trained and trained to master many forms of fighting. if magic use is a super power, than so is use of martial arts. |
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Post by havedunter74 on May 14, 2009 10:11:30 GMT -5
I love Lamp!!!!!
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Post by havedunter74 on May 15, 2009 8:49:47 GMT -5
The reason for my last message is cos this thread is getting a bit heated and neede to be lightened up.
Lets all agree that whether Batman is a superhero,crime-fighter or whatever, he is bloody awesome and thats all that matters. for me he is my hero and thats it.
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