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Post by BatmAngelus on Aug 15, 2005 12:53:33 GMT -5
Well, I wouldn't exactly call Penguin's make-up garish. Over the top in bizarre weirdness- yes. Tastelessly flashy- No, but the purplish pink make-up on Tommy Lee Jones's face in Batman Forever definitely fits that bill.
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Post by The Demons Head on Aug 15, 2005 13:26:36 GMT -5
Well, I wouldn't exactly call Penguin's make-up garish. Over the top in bizarre weirdness- yes. Tastelessly flashy- No, but the purplish pink make-up on Tommy Lee Jones's face in Batman Forever definitely fits that bill. Whoops...I think that I mistook the definition of "garish" for gothic...Thanks for pointing that out to me batmangelus... Yeah, the two-face stuff was just horrible...
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Post by BatmAngelus on Aug 15, 2005 14:19:26 GMT -5
^ Lol. Yeah, Penguin was definitely Gothic. I would hate a Joker with black lipstick and heavy black eyeshadow over a painted white face.
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Post by shaggybatt on Aug 15, 2005 19:04:51 GMT -5
mr MANGELUSSSSS HOWS IT GO DUDEEEE
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Post by The Demons Head on Aug 15, 2005 19:09:04 GMT -5
mr MANGELUSSSSS HOWS IT GO DUDEEEE Is anyone else as confused as I am now? Anywho...I would love to see a Joker with at least one item that's pulled from the comics and not just made up for the movie...He could have a/ the poison-needle pin from The Killing Joke, or something like that...
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Post by Arkham16 on Aug 15, 2005 19:18:48 GMT -5
Anywho...I would love to see a Joker with at least one item that's pulled from the comics and not just made up for the movie...He could have a/ the poison-needle pin from The Killing Joke, or something like that... Oh yes...quite right there... -"Bang" flag gun -Giant joker mallet -Electocuting Joy buzzer -Acid-spewing Boutonnière -Joker Venom -Etc...
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Post by JokerFC on Aug 16, 2005 10:57:42 GMT -5
Absolutely essential in my book-ESSENTIAL
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Post by Batlaw on Aug 16, 2005 11:14:43 GMT -5
Someone should take this list to "E-Harmony" or "perfectmatch.com" LOLOL
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Post by The Demons Head on Aug 16, 2005 11:26:17 GMT -5
Sounds good, but, I wouldn't want to "open the floodgates", so to speak, for all of the truly insane/ depraved people out there...Though, it would help Warner Brothers out; just imagine the auditions for the Joker where some of the applicants are actually insane!
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Post by BatmAngelus on Aug 16, 2005 22:44:49 GMT -5
mr MANGELUSSSSS HOWS IT GO DUDEEEE shaggy, you're here! Now get me a list of Joker qualities in YOUR order of importance! For my LOG friends here, shaggybatt is one of my best friends over at the Batman-On-Film forums. We (with a couple other guys) are working on a Batman Begins sequel script that was technically finished last year but needs serious rewriting to fit the mood, style, and continuity of Batman Begins. And in that script, late last year, we were some of the first (to my knowledge) to come up with the idea of Rachel getting killed to emotionally enhance the other characters. We just didn't use Joker to do it ;D.
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Post by The Demons Head on Aug 16, 2005 23:00:17 GMT -5
Just so you know, I've never visited the BoF forums, and I'd never heard of this/ that concept before writing my script ideas....I'm not trying to be hostile with you, or try to start an online fight, I just want you to know that I honestly DID NOT rip the concept off from you or your friends online; in fact, I started to write my concepts (which I thought would be partly-original) EXACTLY after I came home from the theater on opening day...It was raining where I was, and I booted-up my computer, started Microsoft Wordpad (my pc doesn't have Word), and began to write...
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Post by BatmAngelus on Aug 16, 2005 23:34:19 GMT -5
^ Whoa whoa, don't get paranoid, man! I wasn't accusing anybody of anything, especially not you.
Sorry, I guess I really should've said that differently. I just wrote that to give a perspective and a bit of a clue on what we wrote before heavy sequel speculation ever started. It's cool to see that some of our ideas are becoming fan popular, although twisted around a bit (i.e. the killing off Rachel thing. We have a different criminal responsible). Something similar happened with me and Begins (i.e. Wayne Enterprises severely helping out Batman by inadvertantly giving him gadgets and, later on, an antidote to the Scarecrow's toxin to help save a D.A.). I also put that to once again show that I'm not completely opposed to killing Rachel.
Besides...what you have is absolutely nothing like ours. And shaggy and I know plagiarism when we see it! Right shaggy?
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Post by The Demons Head on Aug 17, 2005 7:58:14 GMT -5
Ok, cool...I wasn't sure what was going on at the time...I'm just glad to know that that wasn't the case...That's ok...I wrote my version as a fan's response to the release of not a great, but, an excellent (who would think that we'd see this in our time after the disaster of Batman & Robin?) Batman movie, coupled with my love of the crime-noir-mystery story, The Long Halloween...As I told a friend of mine recently, by killing her off, the studio could still use "flash-backs" allowing Ms. Dawes to still be in the movies, just not, well, alive... (NOTE: The following is a joke)
Yeah, like-ZOINKS, man! Come on Scoob, let's take off the mask to see who the Joker really is...ADAM WEST?
A.W.: Yeah! Who else would have been foolish enough to think that he could land the title role in the 89 movie when he had his own campy tv show? Still, I thought that if I scarred all the locals away from this cinema, they'd leave, and I could finally become the Batman once again! But, nobody would want to see me as Batman again, so, using my superb acting abilities, I became...The Joker!
And I would've gotten away with it to, if it hadn't been for you meddling kids and your dumb dog!
Shaggy: Like, good-going Scoob! You've solved the case of the out-of-work actor, what're you going to do now?
Scooby: ROOBY-ROO RILL EAT SOME ROOBY-SNACKS...ROOBY-ROOBY-ROO!
The End?...
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Post by BatmAngelus on Aug 17, 2005 11:22:43 GMT -5
^Lol, I think you took the words out of shaggybatt's mouth. ;D
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Post by The Demons Head on Aug 17, 2005 20:08:48 GMT -5
I'm not sure if anyone has covered this aspect of the Joker yet, but, if you think about it at the end of the day he isn't funny...Now, I'm not trying to "ruffle the feathers" of the on line community, to start trouble, or, to say "I don't like such-and-such character so I'm going to say negative things..." No, what I mean is...He's just not funny to the others around him. Take, for example, a sequence from "Batman: Harley Quinn" where his "goons" just go with the routine of hanging around him merely because of the food and pay, never because he's genuinely funny or because they do it for laughs...Here's another possible example to support this theory; he's always laughing obnoxiously...It's as if he's trying to make up for something that he feels is lost in his life; that of humor, genuine humor. He takes great pleasure/ pride in injuring others, much in the same respect that a school-yard bully would when he/ she harasses you; however, the bully, deep-down inside of them, is missing something...Something that compels them to bully others in the first place; sometimes it's problems at home, other times it could be a recent tragedy that they are having a very difficult time coping with...Which brings me to my next point; it's possible that, although his origin changes almost on a whim/ his mood, that he was always a failed comedian; a comedian, in essence, is someone who strives to make others laugh in order to make themselves feel better...I know this from personal experience; I can do funny voices for an audience and make them laugh, making me feel better, or, I don't do them and feel miserable and seriously depressed until I go out [and do the voices for an audience]. I'm not saying that because of these/ this person account that I am the fore-most expert on the Joker, only that this is one example that I believe supports this theory. Next, there's his possible family origin from a book called Tales of the Batman Edited by Martin H. Greenberg...In it, there's a story by Robert R. McCammon entitled "On a Beautiful Summer's Day, He Was", in which the main character is:
- Name is "Junior"; never mentioned by any other throughout the story
- A young man, Caucasian
- Main physical features included an aquiline nose, and (possibly, as I haven't read the story in awhile) almost-wild, slicked back hair
- Almost friendless; only friend's name is/ was named Wally Manfred (Think of Hollywood's stereo-type of a friendless loser/ geek and you've almost got it; wears/ wore glasses )
- A father who demands that his wife and only son smile constantly; also demands them to be happy and to laugh at all of his jokes, no matter how lame they are
- A very sick and twisted individual, as indicated in the following passage: ["Junior" takes Wally into his inner-sanctum, an abandoned water tank/ tower]"...Wally reached the tank's floor. His hands found Junior's arm.'I can't see anything.' 'Here's a light,' Junior said, and he switched it on. A heat was building in his skull, and his temples were pounding. 'See my toys?' he asked, as he swung the light slowly back and forth. 'I made them, all by myself.' Wally was silent. Wires dangled from pipes overhead, and from those wires hung the bones. There were over a hundred. Constructions of wire and small skeletons--birds, kittens, puppies, chipmunks, squirrels, lizards, mice, snakes, and rats. Junior had not killed all of them himself; most of the carcasses he'd found on his long solitary treks. He'd only killed maybe forty of them, the kittens, puppies, and some birds with broken wings. But the skeletons had been reformed, with wire and patience, into bizarre new shapes that did not resemble anything that ever lived. There were birds with the skulls of kittens, and kittens with wings. There were comminglings of rats and puppies, squirrels with beaks, and other things with eight legs and three heads and ribcages melded together like strange Siamese twins. There were things freakish and hellish, constructed from Junior's imagination. And here, on these wires, was the only thing that excited Junior and made him truly smile: Death."
- But wait, there's more... "'I...think...I'd better go home', Wally said, and he sounded choked. Junior's hand closed on the boy's wrist, and held him. 'I wanted you to see my toys, Wally. Aren't they pretty?' He kept moving the light, going to one grotesquerie after another. 'It takes hard work to do this. It takes a careful hand. Do you see?' 'I've gotta get home, Junior! Okay?' 'I do good work,' Junior said. 'I make things that not even God can do'. 'Junior, you're hurtin' my arm!'..."
I'm not going to even finish the rest for you; "Junior" beats Wally to death with a hammer, and proceeds to dry up his carcass so that he can make more grotesque "toys"; if you're feeling sick right now, you're not the only person here who does...
The Joker is insanely jealous; we can see that every time he kills a thug for "laughing out of turn" ,or, for just not doing whatever the Joker decides to make up. Once again, you can utilize a segment from "Batman: Harley Quinn", where he shoots one of his thugs named Robb for giving a little too much information when it came to his girlfriend's occupation.
He is a narcissist; you can see that every time in, say, B:TAS, when he's checking himself out in the mirror, or, saying that he is "The Clown Prince of Crime"....
I hope that this has been for you what it has been for me; an intellectually-stimulating look beyond the make-up, beyond the gags, and beyond the crimes of the Joker; it has been, for me at least, a look into the very damned-soul of Death itself. Here's a photo of the cover of the book that I quoted; I actually own this one and the subsequent "sequel" edition, which essentially re-printed short stories from other books of short stories, most of which I own.
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Post by BatmAngelus on Aug 17, 2005 20:26:40 GMT -5
I think that people here have a good idea that the Joker's humor is typically downplayed in comparison to his creepy factor. I think that an element of humor should be there that makes you tempted to laugh. Mask of Phantasm's Joker was perfect in that respect.
I'm not sure if I'd want a Joker that disturbing in his actions. I agree with your assessment on the personality though.
Btw, here's a hero....
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Post by The Demons Head on Aug 17, 2005 22:07:39 GMT -5
Now that you mention it, the MotP Joker was "perfect" (because, what is perfect?)...I'm not saying that he should be grotesquely creepy, all that I'm saying is that on the one-hand there's the humor aspect which most people are familiar with (well, his name is the Joker...) but, to counter that, there's also a much darker aspect to the character, which, IMO, keeps him from being a one-dimensional person...I wouldn't want him to be this disturbing as well; I was posting this mainly as an attempt to understand the character's actions through a look at his possible past...Thanks for the feedback...I appreciate that! Especially coming from you, IMO, the LoG Batman Begins sequel guru...
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Post by BatmAngelus on Aug 17, 2005 22:09:20 GMT -5
Lol, how am I the LOG Batman Begins sequel guru? I'm just a fan with ideas like everyone else here.
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Post by The Demons Head on Aug 17, 2005 22:13:43 GMT -5
Lol, how am I the LOG Batman Begins sequel guru? I'm just a fan with ideas like everyone else here. What I mean is this; yes, you're a fan, but, IMO, almost all of the stuff that you've posted/ the stuff that I've read of yours has allowed me the opportunity to sort out what I really/ truly want to see in a future movie by analyzing what a/ the character(s) real motivations are...
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Post by BatmAngelus on Aug 17, 2005 22:14:57 GMT -5
Oh....okay...... ;D Shall I inspire you some more with some Harvey Dent analysis?
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Post by The Demons Head on Aug 17, 2005 22:24:39 GMT -5
Oh....okay...... ;D Shall I inspire you some more with some Harvey Dent analysis? That'd be great! I wanted to read what you had to say on Dent...Me? I'd like him to be like this; a man who grew up being mentally/ physically abused as a child, and decided to suppress all of his dark feelings in the form of a multiple personality...Much in the same respect to the B:TAS Two-Face, though, not exactly the same...
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Post by BatmAngelus on Aug 17, 2005 22:29:38 GMT -5
Great minds think alike. I'll start up a thread.
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